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you know, it's interesting how I keep hearing from people who do not understand anything about my culture or belief who say things like, I do not mean to make light of your culture or your people and yet you do not take the time nor the effort to really know anything about my people or our culture, you merely assumed.
You really don't know what effort I've put forth, do you? You see me commenting in favor of my religion on a message board. You ASSUME that I have done nothing to learn about Native Americans. Then you chastise me for it. I find that ironic.
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Now I understand that maybe my cultural beliefs are not all that interesting to individuals such as yourself and that it has very little meaning to you because of your religious beliefs, apparently you think that your religious beliefs are far more superior than my own or anybody else's but I must say to you that your Christianity, in comparison to my cultural beliefs and to other religions is merely a child and has a long way to go to really gain any credibility.
Jesus said that he is the way, the truth, and the life, and that no man gets to the Father but through him. He said it, not me. I'm merely quoting him.
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The history of your religious belief was forced upon people at the point of the sword throughout the many centuries, many lives were taken and destroyed because they did not believe in your religion. Nobody ever lost their life over my cultural belief or that of any of the Native American nations,we never fought over our beliefs and yet our cultural beliefs have been around many thousands of years before your Christianity was even thought of.
Your people certainly have killed other people over land, and your culture. Your people were not the first people to live in North America, and there were conflicts among your people and others. Your people (although provoked) DID, in fact, fight back against the white men that first settled in this land. I'm not suggesting that was wrong--but your smug comment that no one ever lost a life to them is simply wrong.
Having said that, my ancestors were Bohemians (I always thought German, but Ancestry.com cleared it up), and they came over in the late 19th Century -- well after your people had been decimated by OTHER white men. I have done NOTHING, nor did my ancestors do anything to harm you or your people. I really am truly sorry for the pain and suffering that other white men have done to your people in the name of my God. I can do nothing to change that, nor do I attempt in any way to justify what they did.
Just curious what everyone thinks Jesus wants us to do and be. This is NOT a question of how you think the visible church is acting today, but I want to know what you believe Jesus commanded the church to be and do.
Are we to just love everyone?
Are we to preach hate?
ARe we to preach something else?
Going by the Great Commission (assuming it is a true story), Jesus commanded his disciples to share his message (of hope and instructions on how to treat others) with the world. Something must have gotten lost in translation, because that morphed into "Convert the heathens by any means necessary".
Going by the Great Commission (assuming it is a true story), Jesus commanded his disciples to share his message (of hope and instructions on how to treat others) with the world. Something must have gotten lost in translation, because that morphed into "Convert the heathens by any means necessary".
You really don't know what effort I've put forth, do you? You see me commenting in favor of my religion on a message board. You ASSUME that I have done nothing to learn about Native Americans. Then you chastise me for it. I find that ironic.
I do not chastise anybody for not understanding my culture, that is not my way of doing things. And I do not mean to assume that you haven't taken the time to learn about Native American culture if you did as you say you have, then I commend you for the effort, few people even bother to take the time.
Jesus said that he is the way, the truth, and the life, and that no man gets to the Father but through him. He said it, not me. I'm merely quoting him.
you see there you go quoting your sacred book, how do you know that he actually said that? because somebody wrote it in your sacred book? Don't you ever have questions about?
Your people certainly have killed other people over land, and your culture. Your people were not the first people to live in North America, and there were conflicts among your people and others. Your people (although provoked) DID, in fact, fight back against the white men that first settled in this land. I'm not suggesting that was wrong--but your smug comment that no one ever lost a life to them is simply wrong.
for many thousands of years my people have had to fight in order to survive, this is not anything that's uncommon, throughout history in both this land and in the European lands man has had to fight and yes take lives in order to survive and it is unfortunate that these things happen but you are not completing all of my comment. I said that;" nobody has ever lost their life over my cultural beliefs or any Native American cultural belief, we never fought over beliefs."
Having said that, my ancestors were Bohemians (I always thought German, but Ancestry.com cleared it up), and they came over in the late 19th Century -- well after your people had been decimated by OTHER white men. I have done NOTHING, nor did my ancestors do anything to harm you or your people. I really am truly sorry for the pain and suffering that other white men have done to your people in the name of my God. I can do nothing to change that, nor do I attempt in any way to justify what they did.
I am not looking for any kind of an apology, I am only looking for understanding and respect for not only for my culture but for all cultures and beliefs. What is done is done and cannot be undone but hopefully we can all learn from what has happened in the past and possibly take the time to understand and do better.
I am not looking for any kind of an apology, I am only looking for understanding and respect for not only for my culture but for all cultures and beliefs.
What is done is done and cannot be undone but hopefully we can all learn from what has happened in the past and possibly take the time to understand and do better.
You have that. The Native Americans have a fascinating culture. Your people have been treated HORRIBLY by people from other nations. I respect your culture, and your beliefs.
You have that. The Native Americans have a fascinating culture. Your people have been treated HORRIBLY by people from other nations. I respect your culture, and your beliefs.
Do you respect MY beliefs?
to answer your question, yes I respect your beliefs, I may not believe in them but that does not mean that I do not respect your beliefs just as I respect all others beliefs. You see I believe that everyone is entitled to worship their Creator or whatever name they wish to call him or her in their own way and not try to force their beliefs on others, this is where you and I have a disagreement. You are commanded by your religion to try and convert everyone to your religion and in the past if an individual did not believe in your particular religion, they would be put to death.
I mean no disrespect. Again--I realize you're Native American, and I do not mean to make light of your culture, or your people. My point was that you consider my beliefs crazy. On the same note, many of the beliefs that you hold to may be considered "crazy" by the same standards.
(I realize this wasn't addressed to me, but here goes): it's not even a matter of seeing one belief system or collection of folk tales as being "crazy". It's that for nearly 2 millenia the "good news" has been used as a weapon of destruction against ancient tribes and indigenous people, wiping out cultural identities. Clearly, little has been learned from past, because those who share your religion continue to attempt to strong arm their beliefs into our secular government and schools, with no regard for the rights and beliefs of others. That is why the rest of the world is so skeptical of christianity and it's motives, and why we don't forget the past.
(I realize this wasn't addressed to me, but here goes): it's not even a matter of seeing one belief system or collection of folk tales as being "crazy". It's that for nearly 2 millenia the "good news" has been used as a weapon of destruction against ancient tribes and indigenous people, wiping out cultural identities. Clearly, little has been learned from past, because those who share your religion continue to attempt to strong arm their beliefs into our secular government and schools, with no regard for the rights and beliefs of others. That is why the rest of the world is so skeptical of christianity and it's motives, and why we don't forget the past.
Now you're talking something else. Yes--I realize that those calling themselves Christian have historically done some very bad things. Our ancestors have trampled on the rights of others. But you do realize that 9 of the original 13 states had official state religions, right? You do realize our founding fathers were pretty religious, right? Oh, sure---there were some that weren't. But they wanted to preserve the right of the people to worship as we please. That includes Christianity. They also wanted to preserve the rights of the states to legislate as they wanted regarding religion -- without interference from the federal government. That's why it says that "Congress shall make no law". It says NOTHING about states doing it.
So, your statement about "strongarming our way into schools"? Yah, that's what the founding fathers actually allowed for. Just read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
to answer your question, yes I respect your beliefs, I may not believe in them but that does not mean that I do not respect your beliefs just as I respect all others beliefs. You see I believe that everyone is entitled to worship their Creator or whatever name they wish to call him or her in their own way and not try to force their beliefs on others, this is where you and I have a disagreement. You are commanded by your religion to try and convert everyone to your religion and in the past if an individual did not believe in your particular religion, they would be put to death.
You are wrong. You do have that right to worship as you please, and I have no right to force any religion you. I don't pretend to. My religion does NOT tell me to force it on anyone. It says to preach the Gospel. If you reject it, I walk away. I am not to put them to death, or harm them in any way. The fact that someone claiming to be a Christian once did harm to anyone means nothing about what the religion ACTUALLY teaches. It just means that some yahoo that claims to be a Christian did wrong.
Now you're talking something else. Yes--I realize that those calling themselves Christian have historically done some very bad things. Our ancestors have trampled on the rights of others. But you do realize that 9 of the original 13 states had official state religions, right? You do realize our founding fathers were pretty religious, right? Oh, sure---there were some that weren't. But they wanted to preserve the right of the people to worship as we please. That includes Christianity. They also wanted to preserve the rights of the states to legislate as they wanted regarding religion -- without interference from the federal government. That's why it says that "Congress shall make no law". It says NOTHING about states doing it.
So, your statement about "strongarming our way into schools"? Yah, that's what the founding fathers actually allowed for. Just read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
You're demonstrating my point quite nicely: nothing has been learned from the past; your brand of christianity still feels entitled to unaplogetically take whatever it wants.
(And yes, I am quite familiar with the beliefs of the founding fathers. My father was a history professor, with a strong interest in early American history. I've read their writing quite extensively, particularly Jefferson, Paine, and Franklin)
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