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Old 05-31-2016, 01:07 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,189,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebnllnb View Post
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing [sic] in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.


States are not free to enact legislation in violation of the Constitution. Period. End of story.
Actually, that states that any law or treaty that the federal government enacts must be adhered to. Having an official state religion, or allowing free expression on a state level does not violate the Constitution, as it does not limit the states from doing so.

The Constitution actually goes on from there to say that anything not expressly addressed in the Constitution is up to the states to do so.
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Old 05-31-2016, 01:07 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 5,137,790 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I understand that men who claimed Christianity have misused it for that. But no--that's not what Christ taught, or the Bible.

The "No True Scotsman Defense" is played...........and played, and played, and played.

Tell that to the native population of the Americas.
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Old 05-31-2016, 01:09 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,189,177 times
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Originally Posted by mikebnllnb View Post
The "No True Scotsman Defense" is played...........and played, and played, and played.

Tell that to the native population of the Americas.
It's a valid point. If you want to blame Christianity for the evils of bad men, at least tell me what tenet of Christianity they were following.

If you don't, then the point can be made that atheism is responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths because some bad guys that have been atheists were responsible for those deaths.
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Old 05-31-2016, 01:11 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 5,137,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Actually, that states that any law or treaty that the federal government enacts must be adhered to. Having an official state religion, or allowing free expression on a state level does not violate the Constitution, as it does not limit the states from doing so.

The Constitution actually goes on from there to say that anything not expressly addressed in the Constitution is up to the states to do so.
A state having an official religion violates the 1st amendment. Which states have official religions?

I don't know of any state that does not allow free expression of religion.
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Old 05-31-2016, 01:20 PM
 
4,529 posts, read 5,137,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
It's a valid point. If you want to blame Christianity for the evils of bad men, at least tell me what tenet of Christianity they were following.

If you don't, then the point can be made that atheism is responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths because some bad guys that have been atheists were responsible for those deaths.

The fact is that Christians didn't see the native population of the Americas as people until they began converting to Christianity.

The Conquistadors were Christian warriors that were backed by the Catholic church and commanded by a Christian Monarch.
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Old 05-31-2016, 01:23 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,189,177 times
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Originally Posted by mikebnllnb View Post
The fact is that Christians didn't see the native population of the Americas as people until they began converting to Christianity.
And they were wrong for that. The religion does not teach that. Again, don't assume the religion is bad because some knuckleheads that claimed it act stupid.
Quote:
The Conquistadors were Christian warriors that were backed by the Catholic church and commanded by a Christian Monarch.
Again...what tenet of Christianity do you believe they were following when they were doing what they did?
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Old 05-31-2016, 01:25 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,189,177 times
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Originally Posted by mikebnllnb View Post
A state having an official religion violates the 1st amendment. Which states have official religions?

I don't know of any state that does not allow free expression of religion.
9 of the original 13 did. Why do you believe that they'd have intentionally limited themselves?

Religion in the Original 13 Colonies - Under God in the Pledge - ProCon.org


Facts are facts, no matter how you feel about them.
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Old 05-31-2016, 01:31 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,673 posts, read 15,668,595 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post

<snip>

That's why it says that "Congress shall make no law". It says NOTHING about states doing it.

So, your statement about "strongarming our way into schools"? Yah, that's what the founding fathers actually allowed for. Just read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
As you have been reminded before, the Supreme Court and the 14th Amendment, determined over 150 years ago that all of the provisions of the Constitution apply to all governments within the United States. That includes State, County, and Local governments.

So, in essence, although not in so many words, the Constitution DOES say that the "States shall make no law ..."

If you think we should go back 150 years, you should a) begin the process to appeal the 14th Amendment, and b) lobby to pass a new Amendment that clarifies that States do not have to follow federal statutes. (Good luck with that.)

The fact that you disagree with this in no way invalidates the fact that the various States still have to follow the Constitution.
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Old 05-31-2016, 01:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
As you have been reminded before, the Supreme Court and the 14th Amendment, determined over 150 years ago that all of the provisions of the Constitution apply to all governments within the United States. That includes State, County, and Local governments.
I'm aware of your opinion of that, as I have reminded you many times before. The SCOTUS made an incorrect ruling, as you have been reminded of many times before.
Quote:
So, in essence, although not in so many words, the Constitution DOES say that the "States shall make no law ..."
At least according to the incorrect ruling, yes.
Quote:
If you think we should go back 150 years, you should a) begin the process to appeal the 14th Amendment, and b) lobby to pass a new Amendment that clarifies that States do not have to follow federal statutes. (Good luck with that.)

The fact that you disagree with this in no way invalidates the fact that the various States still have to follow the Constitution.
No one is arguing that the states do not have to follow the federal statutes. But the Constitution does explicitly state that Congress shall make no law establishing or preventing the free exercise of religion.
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Old 05-31-2016, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,607 posts, read 11,657,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I'm aware of your opinion of that, as I have reminded you many times before. The SCOTUS made an incorrect ruling, as you have been reminded of many times before.

you know, those who think that the Supreme Court made an incorrect ruling still have to realize that they have to abide by that ruling whether you think it's incorrect or not.

At least according to the incorrect ruling, yes.

You may think that it's an incorrect ruling but the Supreme Court has the final say so and whether you like it or not, you still have to abide by it until such ruling is changed.


No one is arguing that the states do not have to follow the federal statutes. But the Constitution does explicitly state that Congress shall make no law establishing or preventing the free exercise of religion.
you know the states have to follow the federal statutes, it even states that in the U.S. Constitution, and just because the Constitution states that Congress shall make no laws establishing or preventing the free expression of religion does not mean that the states have that right, because they don't either.
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