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Was there anything I said that you took to mean I was indicating differently?
Well, yes, but I could have misunderstood you. I thought it was arguing for some principles that humans could live by of divine origin, but if you say of natural (evolved instinct) origin and religion is just a way of flagging them up, ok...though I rather people went to the source than putting Holy Books in the way.
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Since it seems your agenda is to argue about the origin of principles that I have found worthwhile (divine vs. human) I’ll just say, it doesn’t matter to me what the origin is. As I said, what matters is what is said, not who said it.
Quite so, but if you put your views on the forum I am also entitled to put mine. And you didn't list any of these principles, but we can guess what they are.
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I didn’t put the barrier there. My upbringing did, just as I think anyone’s upbringing endows them with barriers to seeing things as they objectively are. It’s the human condition.
I suppose...i just thought that you'd gone so far breaking free of this business of putting the Bible in the way of reality that you could have gone all the way and it was you choice and preference to leave it there to represent transcendent principles that you evidently know are of human origin
Well, yes, but I could have misunderstood you. I thought it was arguing for some principles that humans could live by of divine origin, but if you say of natural (evolved instinct) origin and religion is just a way of flagging them up, ok...though I rather people went to the source than putting Holy Books in the way.
Quite so, but if you put your views on the forum I am also entitled to put mine. And you didn't list any of these principles, but we can guess what they are.
I suppose...i just thought that you'd gone so far breaking free of this business of putting the Bible in the way of reality that you could have gone all the way and it was you choice and preference to leave it there to represent transcendent principles that you evidently know are of human origin
Honestly, Your style of writing confuses me. I don’t know, for sure, what point you’re trying to make. You seem to take issue with me saying there are things in the Bible that, even as an ex-Christian, I find resonate with things that I have applied in my life and found helpful and valuable? Why would that be an issue for you? I don’t get it.
Not people on this forum. But some of the anti-theist people I've seen clips of. I'm sure all of the heroes of the people on this forum. George Carlin is mild, if anything. But then he usually had something constructive to say, which differentiates him from the rest.
Some people in any group are just very loud, that's why it appears to you that anti-theists or strong atheists are supposed to have "foul mouths".
I share your sentiments, at times. But the fact of the matter is that many people cut their teeth on the Bible. We were raised with it permeating our reality from infancy. So, it's not really amazing that even when some of us have come to understand that the Bible is not the "Word of God", we're still talking about it. It's a part of us, for better or worse, so why not try to make it for better? Some people do that by simply blocking it from their thoughts, perhaps. For others of us, we find ways that things within it relate to "spiritual"* principles that we've found have worth in our life, sans the more mythical aspects of Christianity.
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
I didn’t put the barrier there. My upbringing did, just as I think anyone’s upbringing endows them with barriers to seeing things as they objectively are. It’s the human condition.
I hear you. Like you, I cut my teeth on the Bible, which "permeated my reality since infancy" (...well put!). By the time I was a teen, because I was good at memorizing things, I could quote Bible verses and recite back Luther's Catechism, word for word. At the same time, I started to sense "there was no there... there." But it took me another 40-50 years before I could overcome that early indoctrination enough to admit it, to myself and (slowly, painfully) to others. You'll never hear complaints from me, about the time and methods people take to come to grips with their upbringing.
Honestly, Your style of writing confuses me. I don’t know, for sure, what point you’re trying to make. You seem to take issue with me saying there are things in the Bible that, even as an ex-Christian, I find resonate with things that I have applied in my life and found helpful and valuable? Why would that be an issue for you? I don’t get it.
Arq wonders why you didn't stop at atheist after you rejected the unsound and irrational beliefs you were taught in Christian dogma. He seems to equate human fallibility in understanding God with evidence of no God. Your refusal to go that far seems to puzzle and frustrate him.
Honestly, Your style of writing confuses me. I don’t know, for sure, what point you’re trying to make. You seem to take issue with me saying there are things in the Bible that, even as an ex-Christian, I find resonate with things that I have applied in my life and found helpful and valuable? Why would that be an issue for you? I don’t get it.
I read his post the same way you did, Pleroo.
As a simple example, take well-worn sayings that appear in the Bible that long-ago entered the general lexicon to the point where many people don't even realize their biblical origins. A leopard can't change its spots. He's the Prodigal Son. We're going to have to cut the baby in half. There is nothing new under the sun. And so forth.
Many people find truth in those sayings even if they don't subscribe to or are aware of the source from whence they came.
Honestly, Your style of writing confuses me. I don’t know, for sure, what point you’re trying to make. You seem to take issue with me saying there are things in the Bible that, even as an ex-Christian, I find resonate with things that I have applied in my life and found helpful and valuable? Why would that be an issue for you? I don’t get it.
It's less an issue the more you explain it. After all I'm not telling you how you think, I'm learning from you. It looked at first as though you were saying that the Bible tells us about some eternal verities that implies a divine source. Now it seems that you know these are natural and the Bible is just a handy metaphor for them. That's ok, but not especially helpful.
Like talking about instinctive morals vs educated morals and you say "Yes, Paul says these things are written on our hearts'. Yes, sure that's what he was talking about without knowing what he was realy dealing with. But it isn't particularly helpful.
He's a good lad, is Ozzy. The ones who worry me are Christians who do not have his great -souled generosity of spirit and do Not feel that we should be free to exist...just as soon as they get the power to impose their views on everyone else.
Do you really believe that religious people desire to impose their views? I think they are the least worrisome people regarding anything like that. When was the last time a group of Southern Baptists did a coup de tat government takeover? And what would they want to do even if they did, force everyone to have potluck socials once a week?
Do you really believe that religious people desire to impose their views? I think they are the least worrisome people regarding anything like that. When was the last time a group of Southern Baptists did a coup de tat government takeover? And what would they want to do even if they did, force everyone to have potluck socials once a week?
Ozzy, let's start with religionists crusade against abortion -- not abortions among themselves, but dictating the rights of others. Against homosexuality...again, dictating what should be a person's individual rights. In favor of religious statues on public property. About who can and can't buy and sell a friggin' cake.
Do you really believe that religious people desire to impose their views? I think they are the least worrisome people regarding anything like that. When was the last time a group of Southern Baptists did a coup de tat government takeover? And what would they want to do even if they did, force everyone to have potluck socials once a week?
Last election
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Some people do that by simply blocking it from their thoughts, perhaps. For others of us, we find ways that things within it relate to "spiritual"* principles that we've found have worth in our life, sans the more mythical aspects of Christianity.
