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Thank you for your PR answer but this isn't being truthful.
The TRUTH is that the church discourages race mixing and therefore they keep their wards separated under the guise of the ethnic congregations being "more comfortable" with their own kind. The truth is that they really don't want Jacob or Joseph mixing with Maria or Moana.
You are not being truthful about the issue. You don't want the topic being discussed because there is no defense. Mormonism has a LONG history of racist doctrine by its founders and leaders.
Hey, many christian churches in the South supported slavery. A few have apologized. Many have not.
If everything about Joseph Smith evaporated today, the Mormon Church and what it has become would still be here.
That doesn't make any sense. He founded the religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
What I don't like is this attack mode that we seem to be getting into where Mormonism is being singled out for far worse criticism than the other religions.
I don't agree with that. I have read far more attacks on Catholics, including charges they aren't Christians, they worship Mary, all kinds of things that are not true. And then some things that are true. The sex abuse. The cover up. They have a secret society, and lots of other salacious stuff people love to talk about.
When it comes to their teachings, many Protestants vehemently disagree and such discussions can go on far longer than this thread has thus far.
If a Catholic started a 'What Catholicism teaches' thread, you can be assured that people would be asking about all of the above and much more.
And goshes, bashing Muslims, it gets uglier than any other religion on earth. The actual people, not just debate or disagreement about Islam, the actual people are bashed. I don't see anyone doing that here.
I had a look at a few vids onMormonism vs. Christianity, and I'm disinclined to post any of them as there's so little of actual serious argument. It's all praying and Jesus coming into someone's heart and telling them that Mormonism is false.
There was jut one that argued that God is one and not many and not like a breeding family of gods ..this is something for Mormons and Christians to debate about and it doesn't interest me very much. Fo me the bottom line is not the theology and not even the dirty washing. It is about when examined, it looks believable and credible.
It was interesting on one phone -in testimony it was yet again people not being informed. 'We were nominally Christian...never read the bible..." Easy marks for a carefully compiled Evangelism package - Mormon, Islamic, Evangelical christian - even Scientology and the Moonies could do this.
More information can lead to a rethink - giving up one religion for another. More information leads to a rethink is what results in atheism, or at least irreligion. That will at least leave room for an Emotional attachment to what - on evidence - is not credible.
This is why Information is important, and why the Internet is such a fine weapon in the polemic war. Cults and the more cultlike religions know how vital it is to keep people from hearing anything but the party line. That's the ghetto wall that has to be broken down.
I have most enjoyed reading your posts in this thread and the dialogue between you and Katzpur.
It seems once again people are looking towards the physical nature of the components so as to believe in that which hasn't a physical form. If a person only knows that which can be determined by their 5 senses, then that will be all there is in this life for them and there isn't anything more. At this point, end of discussion.
There are videos, and I came across one (your watching videos made me think of it) of the flat earthers. I watched maybe about 20 minutes of it and they gave a compelling argument that we have all been duped into believing that the earth is round. I'd never heard of the flat earthers before seeing the video title in the right hand column on youtube and being an inquisitive person, going, what's this and giving it a look see. Their argument that from the first day of school the brainwashing begins as there is a globe of the earth in the classroom. Dang if that don't make sense.
So I have received more information and it has led me to rethink. You're right the Internet is a fine weapon. In order for me to continue to believe that the earth is round, like I have been told all of my life, as I can not see it for myself, is to believe in scientist that have knowledge, they are not lying. I have to have faith in people would not be that cruel, as to have the whole world believe in something that is not true, factual and in the evidence they bring to the table, they have collected since the day of modern science.
When people receive information, they consider the source, they consider the evidence that has been presented, they determine the credibility, they the think with their mind, okay, it's believable so therefore it is true. Or one of those components is flawed, so no it is false information and I don't believe it.
Transponder, I can tell you that you have a spirit. But until you know you have a spirit, my telling you that it is true, that information will fall on deaf ears. Until the day comes that people reach out beyond themselves, in a way that allows new information in, that is beyond that which of physical evidence any discussion including that of a sixth sense, will be considered flawed, so therefore false information.
People want to take the Book of Mormon, the Bible, the Qu'ran and find (a reason to believe in) God within those pages. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, He isn't in any of those books. He isn't in a Mosque, or a Church or a Cathedral either. More information will not result in more atheism, because those who know God; and they have developed a personal relationship with Him, no one can touch that. It is what it is and it can not be undone. Faith is a powerful force, not a ghetto wall. ~
I found an article though Transponder that may interest you. It is early morning and haven't been to bed yet. Normally I would take a link like this and work it into a post, but my brain is fading away a bit now ... Philosophy and Christian Theology
an excerpt
Quote:
For most of the twentieth century, the vast majority of English language philosophy—including philosophy of religion—went on without much interaction with theology at all. While there are a number of complex reasons for this divorce, three are especially important.
The first reason is that atheism was the predominant opinion among English language philosophers throughout much of that century. ...
PS: When I joined c-d, I did so because of Religion and Philosophy forum. Interesting enough, not to many people understood or would debate philosophy, so I was disappointed as it is through debates I learn about a topic. imo ... philosophy is the spirit of a person's belief or as most people want to call it, religion.
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 09-17-2018 at 01:39 AM..
That doesn't make any sense. He founded the religion.
I don't agree with that. I have read far more attacks on Catholics, including charges they aren't Christians, they worship Mary, all kinds of things that are not true. And then some things that are true. The sex abuse. The cover up. They have a secret society, and lots of other salacious stuff people love to talk about.
When it comes to their teachings, many Protestants vehemently disagree and such discussions can go on far longer than this thread has thus far.
If a Catholic started a 'What Catholicism teaches' thread, you can be assured that people would be asking about all of the above and much more.
And goshes, bashing Muslims, it gets uglier than any other religion on earth. The actual people, not just debate or disagreement about Islam, the actual people are bashed. I don't see anyone doing that here.
1. I am talking about the church that is here today, not the church as it existed nearly 200 years ago.
2. I don't care what you agree with. You have seen many attacks against Catholics not being christians on this forum? I don't think so. The moderators are very good at nipping that right in the bud.
3. Hey. I was a catholic for decades. And catholics do worship mary. There's her statue in every catholic church I ever visited. When you go confession, you're typically assigned a penance of "our fathers" and "hail marys". And I can't tell you how many rosaries I attended where mary was a central figure.
4. This forum is not the place to try to get back for all the abuse you feel your religion has taken ELSEWHERE.
1. I am talking about the church that is here today, not the church that was nearly 200 years ago.
2. I don't care what you agree with. You have seen many attacks against Catholics not being christians on this forum? I don't think so.
3. Hey. I was a catholic for decades. And catholics do worship mary. There's her statue in every catholic church I visited. When you go confession, you're typically assigned a penance of "our fathers" and "hail marys". And I can't tell you how many rosaries I attended where mary was a central figure.
4. This forum is not the place to try to get back for all the abuse you feel your religion has taken ELSEWHERE.
Where did I say MY religion has been attacked anywhere? Did I say I was a Catholic? Is my cat typing for me again? I don't agree they worship Mary, but that is not something I am going to elaborate on since it's not a thread about Catholicism. I was just giving examples of this that Catholicism is 'attacked' or 'challenged' about, whatever wording you want to use. The point was that other religions are challenged as much or far more than Mormonism. Islam, imo, being the most maligned. Mormonism is NOT 'singled out' at all.
Where did I say MY religion has been attacked anywhere? Did I say I was a Catholic? Is my cat typing for me again? I don't agree they worship Mary, but that is not something I am going to elaborate on since it's not a thread about Catholicism. I was just giving examples of this that Catholicism is 'attacked' or 'challenged' about, whatever wording you want to use. The point was that other religions are challenged as much or far more than Mormonism. Islam, imo, being the most maligned. Mormonism is NOT 'singled out' at all.
I understand what you're saying, and don't necessarily disagree with you. However, on the other hand, whatever Smith did was done 189 years ago. If everything about Joseph Smith evaporated today, the Mormon Church and what it has become would still be here.
Don't get me wrong. I don't believe in much of the history of the Mormon church. I don't believe in the Sacred Grove. It was just some woods over the hill from my house. I don't believe in the Golden Plates...not because they can't produce them today, but because there are certain parts of the story that just don't add up.
However, I feel exactly the same about most of the history of the christian religion.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't find the problems with the Mormon religion to be any more serious than the problems I find with the various christian religions. Yet we seem to be singling out the Mormons for harsh criticism. We don't have a thread like this for Methodists, or Baptists, or Evangelicals.
What I don't like is this attack mode that we seem to be getting into where Mormonism is being singled out for far worse criticism than the other religions. And the reason I don't like the attack mode is that whatever the strengths and weaknesses of the Mormon church and its history are, I have never personally met a Mormon that wasn't a fine, upstanding person...and being from Palmyra, NY, I've met a lot of Mormons. I wish I had met as many fine, upstanding __________________ (I'll let you fill in the blank for the religion of your choice). But again, don't misunderstand me...I know that there are "bad" Mormons. I just haven't ever met any).
Mormonism is being singled out in this thread because a Mormon started the thread about Mormonism. Why would we discuss issues with Baptists or Catholics in a thread started by a Mormon to explain and defend Mormonism ?
Let's reiterate some of the basics of how we operate these forums in City-Data.
We do not refer to churches as "cults." Period. If you have a problem with that, keep it to yourself. We have, and absolutely will again, issue infractions. It's a simple "Golden Rule" thing. Do you want people referring to YOUR church as a "cult?" Don't do it to others.
If a person, or a church, places Jesus Christ as that primary focus of their religion, that makes them "Christian" by any common, base line definition. Here at City-Data, we operate on an open and accepting policy. Similar to the "cult" issue, all you have to do is THINK. Do you want people to say you're not a REAL Christian because you belong to the "wrong" church?
Nobody here is qualified to determine whether another person is "Christian" enough to deserve the title, nor is anybody here qualified to determine that an entire denomination is a "cult," so we won't tolerate these remarks.
If you have comments about this post, DO NOT reply to it. Feel free to send me or Mightyqueen801 a DM to discuss anything you have to say about it.
Does the church no longer make them wait a year to get sealed?
Yes, they do (and I don't personally like that policy). I never implied otherwise. I said that members who are married outside of the temple are encouraged to be sealed as soon as they are able. "As soon as they are able" means one year after their marriage.
What is the doctrinal basis for the “punishment” year.
If it IS doctrinal, why does it apply in the US but not in most other countries around the world?
If it ISN’T doctrinal, why does the policy exist at all?
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