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God cares more about our spiritual welfare than our material welfare. If God knows that if He made a certain poor person wealthy, would that be best for the poor person's spiritual welfare? Perhaps as that person is poor, they would use their Free Will to depend on God. But if they became wealthy, they would misuse their Free Will to dismiss and/or neglect God.
It’s not ‘free will’ if it’s taken away because they ‘misuse it’, lol; neither is it free will if it’s predetermined who is wealthy or poor (and why).
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Originally Posted by Mink57
If you EVER got to the point of homelessness (for example), wouldn't you want someone to show you a bit of empathy?
Sure, as anyone would. I help those who are addicted or mentally-ill on the streets i.e. I regularly donate to various organizations relative to such. My empathy (and my financial situation) allows me to do so; and, it again speaks to my point re: how could there be a god with feelings when he allows so much suffering (while he is sitting around determining who is poor or wealthy, as you describe above), all because he is ‘testing’ folks? It’s illogical, particularly since you essentially just stated he is ‘setting us up’. ;-)
That said, how absurd to be concerned about our ‘spiritual welfare’ when there are folks who suffer from severe mental illness and don’t have the capacity or luxury to think about such.
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Originally Posted by Mink57
Maybe you're right, Cowboy. Maybe there is no God. But I certainly wouldn't want to be selfish and self-absorbed to rise from my grave to find out that there IS a God.
Except atheism, in and of itself, does not translate to selfishness or self-absorption. If there were a god (particularly if he has human feelings, as you suggest), I doubt he would condemn anyone for using the brain that he would have created. It would be a pretty sadistic game if he did.
It’s not ‘free will’ if it’s taken away because they ‘misuse it’, lol;...
Sure it is. Free will doesn't come without consequences. Could you just imagine a world where people could do anything they wanted...without consequences?
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neither is it free will if it’s predetermined who is wealthy or poor (and why).
Being wealthy or poor isn't necessarily 'predetermined'. After all, one can be wealthy today, and poor tomorrow, or poor today and wealthy tomorrow. Personally, if I used my free will to make different choices, I probably could have been a very wealthy woman. But I would have had to make some sacrifices (as in, becoming a deceitful person, and not giving a hoot about others) in order to do so.
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Sure, as anyone would. I help those who are addicted or mentally-ill on the streets i.e. I regularly donate to various organizations relative to such. My empathy (and my financial situation) allows me to do so;
But that's just it: "anyone" would not necessarily want to be as generous as you, even if their finances allowed.
In fact, when I was homeless, I was able to observe that those who were most willing to help others were usually Christian...and not wealthy.
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and, it again speaks to my point re: how could there be a god with feelings when he allows so much suffering (while he is sitting around determining who is poor or wealthy, as you describe above), all because he is ‘testing’ folks? It’s illogical, particularly since you essentially just stated he is ‘setting us up’. ;-)
Whenever I hear atheists (and even some Christians) ask this question, I always think of the parable of the Prodigal Son. In other words, MOST of the suffering is brought on by US. It's either inflicted upon us, or we inflict it upon ourselves by "choosing poorly."
And it's not so much that God is "testing us" because God doen't know how we'll respond (He does), but because *WE* often don't know how we'll respond.
When I re-joined the Catholic faith, my mom was very happy. But she issued a warning: "Mink, satan WILL come after you." Boy oh boy, was she ever right about that! Seemed like the moment I re-joined the faith, everything in my life started falling apart. Guess who I blamed? I was not as 'righteous' as Job was.
Where in the bible is it guaranteed that the moment we become Christian that everything in our live will go according to *our* desire?
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That said, how absurd to be concerned about our ‘spiritual welfare’ when there are folks who suffer from severe mental illness and don’t have the capacity or luxury to think about such.
The spiritual welfare may have nothing to do with the person who's mentally ill, but the people who are in the mentally ill person's "sphere of influence." Do they exhibit patience? Compassion? Empathy? Love? Kindness? Or do they look down on the mentally ill, believing that they should fall off the face of the earth?
As for the mentally ill person him/herself, they may not even know they're mentally ill. Think God will hold that against them?
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Except atheism, in and of itself, does not translate to selfishness or self-absorption. If there were a god (particularly if he has human feelings, as you suggest), I doubt he would condemn anyone for using the brain that he would have created. It would be a pretty sadistic game if he did.
You're right. Atheism doesn't automatically translate to selfishness/self-absorption. But the atheist uses themselves as the 'standard', whereas the Christian does not.
I do believe that God has feelings, but His 'feelings' are perfect, whereas ours are not.
But it seems like your point is: 'well, since they do it, it's okay for us to do it'. Not sure that's a winning principle.
That's not my point.
My point is that while some believers AND some non-believers do it, it's probably not o.k. that either 'side' does it.
All Christians do not think alike. All atheists do not think alike, nor do ALL Catholics, Baptists, Buddhists, Hindu's, agnostics, Americans, Japanese, etc.
My point is that while some believers AND some non-believers do it, it's probably not o.k. that either 'side' does it.
All Christians do not think alike. All atheists do not think alike, nor do ALL Catholics, Baptists, Buddhists, Hindu's, agnostics, Americans, Japanese, etc.
Well, that I can agree with.
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