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yes that is my point, you put in so little, you offer so little facts, analysis, data, and then from some pompous position you seem to think you can hoist the work to be done onto me, as if you had fulfilled your duties as accuser and grand inquisitor. Dude, your the lazy one. Do some home work.
The idea that I am challenging you, or in some battle, - that does seem to elevate your concept of your role in this.
Why do I 'do' this?
I do this for many reason, mostly I am learning in the process. about myself, my opinions, feelings, observing self and gaining some discerning wisdom, albeit slowly. thanks.
I do this out of some twisted, dead imagery, egoic satisfaction and intellectual stimulation.
I do it because I find you and others to be spiritual bigots, in the act spiritual profiling, etc and find that interesting for someone to call that out and show that to you.
I do it because I am interested if some compelling evidence is even to be had.
I don't do it out of some sense of defense, or need to recruit, or just pursued.
Ok, perhaps it was a rhetorical question and you really didn't want me to answer, sorry I got carried away.
alan, you have used the phrase 'spiritual bigot' several times...
You are not understanding what I have written, I have no problem with 'spirituality', just with many organized religions, and even more so with tax dodges like MP.
If MP works as a spiritual beacon for you, fine. Just understand that true spirituality does not come with a price tag.
I know more about MP than I am willing to divulge here... it is wasted on folks like you.
I would very much like to become part of this conversation. I'm someone who is living the effect of what a faults teacher or "Master" can potentially cause(if Gary is a faults teacher).. I dont know, if what I go through now, is my own fault, or if Gary did this to me...
My mission is to find out if Gary is infact real or if he's a fraud, I need to know, to move on, to cope, to breath again. I've spent a lot of my time investigating forums such as this the last 4 years, looking for answers. I have a lot to tell and a lot to share about my experiences on the MP. Some of it is good and some of it is ugly, I hope as I go along with the events that transpired with me, it may help myself as well as others to either heal from the damages the path has caused or help to prevent others from facing the same horror as I and many others have. If Gary is real, I have to know, so at least I know I'm not going through this inner torment for nothing.
I was dismissed from the MP for not taking my 2nd initiation after 2 .3 years on the path. I wasn't ready at that time for the increase in vibration and challenges that Gary said there would be in the higher initiations. I could have sworn Gary once said that he would never force a Chela into initation and allow them to remain on the path if they needed further investigation or time... that wasn't the case for me. After being dismissed, so many things Gary had said, about those who leave the path. More or less left me crushed me to the ground.... for the last 3-4 years I've been in the worst psycohlogical condition I can imagine a human being existing in. Noone deserves to experience this level of inner suffering.
Allan is right about there not being enough proof to back up the claims of many,..this proof is what I am looking for. Allan you seem to 'not' be very conserned with what Gary does in his life,... from the perspective I had while on the path... I would agree. I wanted my Master to be in comfort and for his Chelas to pay for his living... as he puts all his energy into us, we should, in turn, take care of him, so he can be there for us at full copassity
...however.. even though I felt like Gary should be covered by the chelas, and not have to work(as a painter or used-car salesman) in his living, so he can focus on reading letters/writing letters, writing discourses, books and making plans. Gary clearly announced that it doesn't work like this, in regards to him using the chelas money for himself(other then airfare and hotel and possibally food fee's when he's traveling). He's stated that he works for a living, earnes all his keep, takes nothing from the chelas, lives in the slums, has very little money and devotes all his time to his chelas. If Gary says this, but it turns out to be NOT true. That is a huge thing to be concerned about Allan!..why? Because a man who is claiming to be one of the few 'genuine', 'authentic'..and even 'perfect' Sat Guru's, is outright lying to those who have invested everything they have, inside and out, to him in trust, of the most deepest and highest kind.
For someone of his proclaimed status and position, to outright lie like that, would be almost unquestionable proof of a hidden agenda, that his followers are unawair of. To me, these can't be the signs of a true Saint... but I realize now more than ever how little I know. How lost I am. If Gary is not a True master..then where can a true path be found?.. I have so much more to say, but I'll wait to mention them in future posts. I just wanted to mention that inital point to Allen to start off.
Before I joined the MP, I had done a lot of deep investigation into spiritual truth. I found, the more I studied and the more info I came across. The more lost and full of questions, I became filled with. I reached a point where I knew that there's no way I'm going to figure all this out or even know what's really true or not without some sort of living example. Upon realizing how much is actually going on within ourselves, it seemed to make the most sense, that I find a guide who's gone before me.
To help me understand what to focus on, and what exactally to 'internally' do. To answer my questions and demenstrate that which is being said and spoken of in so many texts, in terms of realization and consciousness. So that I can maybe somehow provisionally see and know, in a way that helps me to be certain, that the real truth is being told. Also, to help me understand what not to do and what will basically get me spiritually nowhere.
When I first found about about gary olsen, I think I was more excited about finding a teacher that spoke of and proclaimed to do, exactally what I was looking for deep within me. Rather than assessing everything in a way that proved beyond proof that Gary is really who he says he is. After so many years of seeking, I felt I had finally been led to where I was meant to go.
To me, it seemed like there's no way God would leave us without any living guidance to what old scriptures speak of, scriptures that have been retold, reinterpreted, over and over, and as a result. All scriptures 'seeming' so drastically different. Although, when all these different teachings are traced back to their roots, I've found that I can see much more similarity in what many teachers or Masters of old have said; vs what's tought and written about what they've said, long after many translations and interpretations have occured.
It wasn't until MP that I learned, so much more inner realities exist than I could have ever imagined, before comming across Surat Shabd Yoga - represented by Gary Olsen. Upon learning of these inner realities, I developed and incredable relience and dependency on the guidence of the "Master". The very teachings of Surat Shabd Yoga depend on a living "Outer" Master to direct one to the "Inner Master" or "Eternal Master". Which Gary claims; works through him and in another way "IS" him.
Almost all of what Surat Shabd Yoga teaches makes very clear sense, it's probably the most reasonable, probable, realistic teaching I have ever found. However, if this teaching is misrepresented. Serious damage to the student can occur, this is what I believe may have happened to me on the MP. In the teachings of Surat Shabd Yoga, it's said that attempting to rise one's consciousness without the inner guidance of The True Eternal Master and outer guidance of A True Living Master, will ultimatally lead to error in the efforts of the individual. Potentially even having dangorious conquences.
For the last 5 years, I highly speculate I've been living these "serious conquences". Conquences that are beyond description in terms of pain and suffering... I want to get very detailed on this. So that people who read this, have a clear 'heads-up' before jumping onto the MasterPath. In knowing how dangorious the inner realities can truly be. Also knowing what's really at stake, if the "Master" is NOT who he/she claimes to be. I entered the path very hastfully, and it wasn't until a year later that something was feeling terrabally wrong.
I fear that by putting my trust in MP and Gary, and moving into the inner, without fully assesing Garys authenticity. May have led me to move inward, with no inner guide what-so-ever. Causing the the unbearable pain and psycohlogical condition I experience, even to this day.
I've reciently learned though a lot of research that what I'm most likely experiencing is an awakened Kundalini, which, if prematurally awakened, can quite litterally cause the body to feel like it's litterally burning. If the Kundalini is pushed to the 3rd eye upon awakening. It resultes in a horrable feeling of a magnet like sensation on the forehead, but combined with a resistence that results in unexplainable searing pain. This pain doesnt cease in some situations(like mine). For some, it's been known to last for months, others years(5 years for me) and for some decades or even their whole lifetime.
Surat Shabd Yoga strictly teaches against the use or movment of the Kundalini. Gary re-affirms how dangorious the Kundalini is in many of his seminars, however, the very spiritual excersise or meditation he instructs a student to do. Is the very thing that can cause the kundalini to awake and rise(i.e. focusing the attention on the 3rd eye - skipping all other chakras, to start, without any purifactation first).
In trusting that Gary is a true Master, my belief was that the "Inner Form" will protect from this happening. Guide the Chela appropiatally via the sensory currents while helping the devotee to keep the Kundalini at bay, as long as the Chela follows Gary's instructions. Either I didn't follow Gary's instructions, or there was no "inner master" connected to Gary to even assist me. Thus resulting in my Kundalini to spearhead into my unpurified, unopened 3rd eye. Resulting in a torture that can best be described as a burning, magnetic but resistive, searing pain in the forehead and top of the head(fluxing back and forth) and an incredabally distressed state of being.
I've learned that when the Kundalini gets stuck at the 3rd eye or crown chakra, the pain is so intense and severe, that a desire to actually de-exist manifests, bcz the unbearable pain feels so beyond physical reality, that it'll never go away, even after death. I've been enduring it for 5 years now, still seeking help. Hoping with everything in me, that I can find a True Master to aid me in undoing this damage and continue my path. A part of me needs to know if Gary is real or not.
I know it's easy to say he's not real, but it's not so easy to really prove he's not real. Gary leaves his departing students with more or less no hope at all. Potentially putting one in permenent despair if the ex-student believes he is real.
I'm in a situation where I honestally don't know if he's real or not bcz there isn't enough proof that I've seen to know for sure. I want to know if he's a proven fraud so I can have a sense of hope. ..if I learned anything on the MasterPath, it's that I know absolutally nothing for sure. I see both ends of the perspective, from being on the path and off. On the path, I found an understandable reason in all that gary did. Off the path, the negative things I've known gary to do aren't so readily justified or understood, but rather lead me to further investagation into the authenticity of Gary Olsen. With expanding hope, that i may just find that he's not what he claims after all.
This exercise that Gary teaches I believe is very different than what historical L&S Masters have tought to do in regards to rising consciousness. Although, Gary justifies this as 'tailoring to the culture' and "using the same wine, in a new bottle".. along with his authority to change the "rules" but not the "essence" of the teachings, as a "True Sat Guru".
Many may ask why i don't readily see the apparent "red flags" Gary puts off? believe me I do, but there is something unique about Gary that is really felt and noticed in his presence. Any ex-Chela can attest to this I think. However, my speculation is that Gary may have some level of consciousness, which he very well could be exploiting for personal gain. Much like what Paul twichell did with Eck. Although, I really deeply feel like he does not have the God-Consciousness he claims to have.
I just need proof to be sure, and one of the greatest means of proof would be to do what deepcynic said "follow the money". Which is one of the number one things I'm investigating at this time. I sure would love to know his address to google earth a ground view of his "run down, always in need of repair home, in the middle of the slums". Just to validate one of his claims.
There are NO TRUE spiritual Masters that require money for their guidance, period! ANYONE that does is a fraud. It is not ambiguous.
When I started the path, 6 years ago. I was in great support of the $25 per mo dues. Simply bcz I knew the MasterPath could not run without income. Gary made the Chelas feel like the MP is running a very tight budget, that not a penny is wasted, and that it all goes into running the path. When I looked at the figures 6 years ago, it made sense to charge $25 to run the office, pay the workers, finance vahanna meetings and seeker meetings..etc. I couldn't see the MasterPath existing without any income. At first, unless Gary financed everything himself, MasterPath couldn't have functioned without some support from somewhere for the obvious expenses.
Now, however, I see a $30 charge to nearly 2,000 students. Along with continued $80 regionals and $120 seminars. Which must bring in substantial amounts of income alone at this point. Include materals fee's like $20 books, $6 tapes/CDs,$15 DVDs/VHSs, Pictures ranging from $5-$300(depending on size) and top that, masive donations most likely doubling thier income. I myself donated at least $10-$20 extra a month, just bcz I thought the path really needed it. Now, when I see their "non-profit" income.. I feel a little nausous.
Simply bcz it's obviously way more than is needed IMO. With the current member count, the dues should be dropped to $20 or even $15 per month.. when thinking of it as an honest, non-profit path..
So the increase in dues really does have my attention as a potential red-flag. Just with the federal law, if it's found that Gary is using the students money for anything other than something MasterPath related. Then Gary is not just commiting a severe spiritual crime, but also a very severe legal one as well..something along the lines of tax evasion fraud.
So now the question is: Where is all the money going to? If it's going to the Path, or is any of it going to Gary's pocket? You're right MysticPhD, if Gary is using any of that money for himself, he's a fraud. But, if it's all going to MasterPath functions. Then he wouldn't fall into the catagory of asking for money for himself. He's asking for needed dues to make the teachings available, which to me, is a little different than charging for spiritual service. It's charging to make the spiritual service possible..just like any church I suppose.
I'm sure you can tell by now, that I'm constantally hung up on the "what if" factor. That I can't say "I know" anything for certain, unless i know it for sure, with proof and evidence. If Gary is a fraud, then he's shown me how susceptable I am to falling for the way things appear. In that, I find myself unable to take things as they seem anymore, just in knowing how fooled I potentially was by Gary. The irony, is I now use that same concept, to give his "red-flags", the benifite of the doubt until proven guilty. Rather than assuming as I once did, about gary being real and following him with 100% trust without enough evidence to back up my certainity(at the time).
wow allen .. how about some of your proof of experiances .. please share
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Yep, if it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, talks like a duck.... don't tell us it's an eagle.