Colin Kaepernick sits during national anthem to protest racial discrimination (Los Angeles: fit in, condo)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by waitingtundra

https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net...49&oe=5838A36C

what a real man looks like, not a whiny cry baby kid

Yeah! (Notice you didn't post any pictures of M.L. King, Mahatma Gandhi, Muhammad Ali, Jesus Christ (etc). Dirty protestors that they were.) But you got a great shot in of a macho pro-ball player who toes the prescriptive line!

[the happy guy]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

To bring change in 2016, you need to grab the attention from those who are neutral and in the opposing side, but in a positive manner. This was the flaw in Kap's decision. Publicity can easily work against the cause now that everything is broadcasted 24 hours a day. F

or example, I think BLM has done more damage than good for their cause. They have turned a lot of neutral people into the opposing side by some of their methods of protesting such as blocking traffic and the more extreme destruction of public and private property.

As a reminder, it was widespread riots that prompted both the 1964 and 1968 civil rights acts.

It's civil disobedience. the effectiveness of a demonstration (civil disobedience) relies on its disruptive power. It wants to affect the public and it wants to draw widespread attention to gain momentum. that is the idea behind strikes, boycotts, blockades, walkouts, interruptions, etc.

The likelihood of disenfranchised groups being able to break into mainstream news on favorable and positive terms is well, unlikely. In a society that promotes and holds sentiments of being post racial and meritocratic (as fallacious as those beliefs are), it is then difficult to break through attitudes of indifference and/or antipathy to highlight social and political injustices. Civil disobedience has always been about disruptive power, and continuous disruption is harder for a society to withstand, which serves to produce expeditious results.

When have you fought for something bigger than yourself? Something that would define the terms of your existence, and of those who look like you?

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

For Kap, it's hard to respect him when he shows zero appreciation for what this country has done for him. He was abandoned by his parents and adopted by a nice White couple who gave him a great life, which led to him making millions each year playing a sport. If he is serious, he would gain a lot of respect and support by admitting he doesn't deserve to be making millions playing a sport meanwhile there are thousands of people other minorities who weren't as lucky as him who are working double shifts and still not being able to have a decent living. If he then continued to say, to show I want to lead the charge, I will make donate all but $100k of my salary to help minorities and I hope more people follow too, I would respect him and so would the vast majority of the country. He says nothing about this, which is why I think he is just a spoiled privileged brat who doesn't realize his own privilege, which to many makes him come off as an ungrateful hypocrite.

So, because he was adopted by a white family and is now a rich athlete, he can't stand up for those who live a much more distressed experience and life? Who are you??????

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by the happy guy

As a reminder, it was widespread riots that prompted both the 1964 and 1968 civil rights acts.

It's civil disobedience. the effectiveness of a demonstration (civil disobedience) relies on its disruptive power. It wants to affect the public and it wants to draw widespread attention to gain momentum. that is the idea behind strikes, boycotts, blockades, walkouts, interruptions, etc.

The likelihood of disenfranchised groups being able to break into mainstream news on favorable and positive terms is well, unlikely. In a society that promotes and holds sentiments of being post racial and meritocratic (as fallacious as those beliefs are), it is then difficult to break through attitudes of indifference and/or antipathy to highlight social and political injustices. Civil disobedience has always been about disruptive power, and continuous disruption is harder for a society to withstand, which serves to produce expeditious results.

When have you fought for something bigger than yourself? Something that would define the terms of your existence, and of those who look like you?



So, because he was adopted by a white family and is now a rich athlete, he can't stand up for those who live a much more distressed experience and life? Who are you??????

No he can't complain while on the job when he isn't willing to make any sacrifices. Well, he can but he deserves zero respect and hopefully doesn't get picked by another team. Times are different now just like politics. Everything is broadcasted 24 hours. Civil disobedience is going to cause more hem then good. For me I 100% hate BLM for their actions, beforehand I could see part of that view, but now I am rooting against them. It's common sense! If I want someone to paint their house blue and they don't want to, it isn't going to help if I destroy their yard and cars.

[bodyforlife99]

I personally think Kap is pretty much playing everyone (hard to even fathom the amount of time being spent on "his event" on the news and on forum boards).

I personally don't care if he sits or stands (that's his right, so knock yourself out). However, from my perspective, what I'm seeing is a guy that has had his butt kissed all his life from High School to the NFL, that is about to become very irrelevant. And this stunt is his final curtain call to get some attention. In other news, the 3rd string QB for the Browns was shaving against the grain yesterday.

[bmw335xi]

Kap is just a spoiled attention *****

[Snort]

It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.
Here's an example of doing something on the positive side (although in no way related to race, in this case)
Following Granderson’s $5M gift: How Met transformed Chicago school | New York Post

With the money K-dude has, he could be a positive example by setting up a scholarship for inner-city youth, or help out those abused, affected by discrimination, etc...

[the happy guy]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

No he can't complain while on the job when he isn't willing to make any sacrifices. Well, he can but he deserves zero respect and hopefully doesn't get picked by another team. Times are different now just like politics. Everything is broadcasted 24 hours. Civil disobedience is going to cause more hem then good. For me I 100% hate BLM for their actions, beforehand I could see part of that view, but now I am rooting against them. It's common sense! If I want someone to paint their house blue and they don't want to, it isn't going to help if I destroy their yard and cars.

Yes, I'm sure by asking politely for civil rights and equal protection under the law in 2016 will convince people like you to not oppose their cause. Please direct me to which rabbit hole you fell through.

Why stand for the national anthem? To honor the military - active, retired and fallen? Why is all you give is two minutes? You think the homeless and jobless veterans feel recognized, valued and respected from your two minutes, right before you go back to eating your $10 hot dog, and they go back to being invisible?

Is it a display of patriotism?

Patriotism isn’t just getting teary-eyed on the Fourth of July or choked up at war memorials. It’s supporting what the Fourth of July celebrates and what those war memorials commemorate: the U.S. Constitution’s insistence that all people should have the same rights and opportunities and that it is the obligation of the government to make that happen. When the government fails in those obligations, it is the responsibility of patriots to speak up and remind them of their duty.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...=.74ab3cbb05de

This.....

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Oh I don't know. I fought in a war for Uncle Sam. Vietnam. It didn't protect anyone's freedom. And protesters raising awareness of that in excellent exercise of conscience were condemned just as you condemn Kaepernick. More protest should have been raised when GWB conned the nation into sending 4,000 more Americans, and a couple hundred thousand Iraqi's, to their deaths on another BS tip.

Conscientious expression and protest is an honored tradition of our democratic nation that helps bring true direction to our moral compass. Blind allegiance to a piece of cloth is nothing more than cheap, lazy jingoism. Colin's act, consider it right or wrong on the issue he protests, is intended to challenge our nation to live up to its ideals - and therefore well within the bounds of patriotism.

If you want to consider "disgraceful" acts, consider condemnation of free expression of social conscience.

[bmw335xi]

Guaranteed pissing off neutral people will not gain support, it does the opposite. This isn't the backwoods days anymore. It amazes me how liberals these days have so little common sense. YES, lets block traffic and they will be sure to join our cause! Lets smash people's cars and I know they will think wow they are the kind of people I want to support.

[chessgeek]

Originally Posted by the happy guy

Yes, I'm sure by asking politely for civil rights and equal protection under the law in 2016 will convince people like you to not oppose their cause. Please direct me to which rabbit hole you fell through.

Why stand for the national anthem? To honor the military - active, retired and fallen? But is that all you give, is two minutes? You think the homeless and jobless veterans care about your two minutes?

Is it a display of patriotism?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...=.74ab3cbb05de

This.....

I could not have said it better. Thanks for putting this in perspective!

Furthermore, the hostile over-reactions of many to his sitting at the National Anthem like Donald Trump, who wants him to leave the USA are shameful, but predictable. Part of the "if you do not believe exactly as I do, please leave the USA" mentality. Patriotism and intolerance are two entirely different things. Too many people still have not got that message yet. Yet Donald continues to do the majority of his manufacturing overseas and has dissed John McCain's military service, Gold Star parents and the disabled while refusing to release his tax returns. What a model patriot! Lol. If nothing else, this incident provides us with another reason not to vote for Trump.

Second, we still have to continue to discuss the issue of police relations with black people while respecting different points of view. I just don't see why it is so controversial to fire a bad cop (after a fair process). They only hurt the majority of good cops. They also hurt the public. Btw, it is a "pro-police" viewpoint to do that. Ignoring it is truly the "anti-police" viewpoint IMO.

Unlike Donald Trump, I would never tell Donald Trump, Colin Kaepernick or any other citizen to leave the country merely because they have a different viewpoint. I have too much respect for our bill of rights. Now that is real patriotism!

[chessgeek]

Originally Posted by nmnita

and he isn't doing anything to set a positive example for our youth; he is showing them more how to protest than how to respect our country, even if it isn't perfect. What a good way to ruin a career and end up trying to find a new one. He already had problems, now it is unlikely he will be with the team much longer.

I frankly don't get that worked up over someone exercising their right to dissent and at least he is doing so with class (not burning a flag or blocking traffic, just sitting quietly while the National Anthem is being played). It is called the First Amendment. The NFL has stated there is no rule requiring players to stand while it is being sung. CK has already said he is OK with being released from the team if that should happen.

If you want to criticize someone who should be setting a better example, start with Donald Trump who has already said Kaepernick should leave the USA. One would think Trump would have learned, after his negative episodes against Mexicans, regarding John McCain's military service and a Gold Star family, and the disabled, but maybe you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Plus he still won't release his tax returns. His pattern of negative, shameful behavior is far worse IMO than someone sitting down during the National Anthem.

Agree to disagree.