Colin Kaepernick sits during national anthem to protest racial discrimination (Brea: appointed, living)

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by Im Jye Hye

Who said anything about Black Lives Matter? Just like most of you far right Black Obsessed veiled racists, you harp on anything that has to do with Black progress or Black people. You're a fox bot that spits out the same rhetoric all you fox bots do. "Black on Black Crime, Black Lives Matter, Chicago, Race Card" and anything else you sheep like parrots can think of to discredit an entire group just trying to be treated fair. You have Black Race Torturetts. I said nothing about BLM or Black people, I'm Korean American. Guliani is a disgusting excuse for a human. You in here pretending you're socially liberal when you're no such person. You're a hardcore far right wing, black obsessed racism denier.

Umm... Kap wasn't protesting the treatment of dolphins, I'm not sure why you are surprised about the subject matter being African American race relations

Can you explain how cutting down the murder rate did NOT save Black lives when the majority of the murders that were cut happened in Black neighborhoods? Please don't create another member account to answer this question.

[livinfairfax]

BMW, did you create Im Jye Hye to talk to yourself? lol

[chessgeek]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

What a piece of trash, spoiled privileged brat.

Deadbeat dad walks out at birth, his mom gives him up, he gets adopted by White parents who spoil him rotten and now he disgraces the men and women who died for his freedom, while talking about privilege. Look in the mirror you spoiled idiot.

I hope this kills his career.

By your "logic", you should also be calling Donald Trump a spoiled brat for dissing John McCain's military service and dissing two Gold Star parents. That is disgracing the men and women that died for his freedom, right? Do you call Trump an idiot and ask him to look in the mirror, too? Do you hope it ends his political career early?

The VFW thought strongly enough about it to criticize Trump's actions on their website.

At least CK explained afterwards that he was concerned with police relations with the black community and did not intend to insult military people.

So do you apply that same "reasoning" to Trump?

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by chessgeek

By your "logic", you should also be calling Donald Trump a spoiled brat for dissing John McCain's military service and dissing two Gold Star parents. That is disgracing the men and women that died for his freedom, right? Do you call Trump an idiot and ask him to look in the mirror, too?

The VFW thought strongly enough about it to criticize Trump's actions on their website.

At least CK explained afterwards that he was concerned with police relations with the black community and did not intend to insult military people.

So do you apply that same "reasoning" to Trump?

Yes, I think Trump was an idiot when he said both of those things. Bottom line, he isn't perfect or anywhere near perfect, but I like him a lot more than Hillary.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

Yes, I think Trump was an idiot when he said both of those things. Bottom line, he isn't perfect or anywhere near perfect, but I like him a lot more than Hillary.

Do you "like him" more than CK?

[Delahanty]

Originally Posted by chessgeek

By your "logic", you should also be calling Donald Trump a spoiled brat for dissing John McCain's military service and dissing two Gold Star parents. That is disgracing the men and women that died for his freedom, right? Do you call Trump an idiot and ask him to look in the mirror, too? Do you hope it ends his political career early?

The VFW thought strongly enough about it to criticize Trump's actions on their website.

At least CK explained afterwards that he was concerned with police relations with the black community and did not intend to insult military people.

So do you apply that same "reasoning" to Trump?

It's a fable that Donald Trump "dissed two gold-star parents." Instead, that man used the death of his son 12 years ago to play "neener neener, we suffered more than you did" while his compliant wife stood by-- something the families of the fallen never do, BTW, because they carry their burden with dignity.

Khan, revealed to be a Hillary hack, is the real disgrace.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Delahanty

It's a fable that Donald Trump "dissed two gold-star parents." Instead, that man used the death of his son 12 years ago to play "neener neener, we suffered more than you did" while his compliant wife stood by-- something the families of the fallen never do, BTW, because they carry their burden with dignity.

Khan, revealed to be a Hillary hack, is the real disgrace.

Fables are fun! Fictional stories that people contrive to make their POV seem sensible and righteous!

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Oh hi there, Nita ... lecturing me again I see. Now my turn.

No, I won't give you a break.

I'll respond one more time to this controversy, this time adding the point that this issue is not about offending the men and women serving in our military. It is about the precepts of our democratic nation. That this protest might offend some military service personnel is only one component of a larger picture. My previous comment that you quoted, noting that I was in a war and am not offended by Kaepernick, was in response to a specific comment in that regard.

Now then, happy anniversary.

And a timely question for you: if you caught your husband cheating on you in violation of your vows - or, say, disrespecting your relationship by being verbally (let alone physically) abusive, would you draw a line and confront him with any ultimatums about his behavior? If so, would you consider your confrontation disrespectful - or out of line? Or, conversely, would it in your mind be entirely respectfully appropriate to call him on his failure while offering him a chance to improve / reprove the vows of the relationship - while refusing to accept his failure until he turns things around?

Do I think there are other countries better or even equal to the U.S.? Sure. I can think of several right off top of my head that are equal or possibly an improvement. Why don't I move there? Because recognizing qualities in others doesn't mean I don't value where I am and what I have as well. I love my country just fine. But I am not blind to illusions of 'exceptionalism'.

I am burdened with the weighty karma of having contributed to a lot of unjust death and destruction at the request of my country. We are, like all nations, flawed. I can live with my karmic burden as long as I stand for never accepting its repetition without protest. Protest and civil disobedience are the tools available to the electorate of a democratic republic. They should be used according to individual good conscience.

And finally, yes, it has occurred to me that Kaepernick may be using this protest as a clever ploy. If so, it's pretty shrewd of him or his agent. And he should be ashamed to do so. But it doesn't change the truth of the social failure it highlights. In my view, his protest is as worthy in public issue as any.

Reacting to an adulterer is a little different than what he did in my opinion. How I would react if hubby cheated, it never happened so I have no idea. I would not protest in public, I can assure you that.

Lecturing you again: Nope, just giving my opinion and you mention a few vets might be offended by his actions: do you pay any attention to the media, whether on the web, TV, Radio or reading newspapers? I am guessing not, or you would realize, more than a few are upset with his actions. In stead of making a show around himself, have you wondered what he has done to help the minorities? Has he donated his time or money, has he given talks in schools to kids, or made an effort to improve what he considers unfair treatment of some? When he starts giving of himself I may feel differently.

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Do you "like him" more than CK?

Are you serious lol

Yes because CK throws a ball around for a living and isn't even that good compared to others in his field. Other than that, a lot of his views on issues aren't known, but I can assume he is too liberal for me, but who knows.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by nmnita

Reacting to an adulterer is a little different than what he did in my opinion. How I would react if hubby cheated, it never happened so I have no idea. I would not protest in public, I can assure you that.

Lecturing you again: Nope, just giving my opinion and you mention a few vets might be offended by his actions: do you pay any attention to the media, whether on the web, TV, Radio or reading newspapers? I am guessing not, or you would realize, more than a few are upset with his actions. In stead of making a show around himself, have you wondered what he has done to help the minorities? Has he donated his time or money, has he given talks in schools to kids, or made an effort to improve what he considers unfair treatment of some? When he starts giving of himself I may feel differently.

Hi Nita. You have avoided answering the question I posed. The fact that you and your husband have a dedicated marriage isn't in question. It is a hypothetical moral challenge. Take it out of the context of your own life and how would you position yourself if the question is simply posed as a generic question to married couples in general. Do you think the wife / husband should suffer their partner's disloyal behaviors that insult and threaten their foundational vows to each other? I could represent under different scenarios but I suspect I got my point across to both you and other readers.

The questions posed in your other comments have all been well addressed throughout this thread. The essential challenge is whether "nice", "polite", "quiet and contributory" approaches engender change where entrenched behaviors stubbornly persist. In this case, deadly discrimination over hundreds of years of inequitable mistreatment of Black Americans.

Protest and civil disobedience are honorable democratic traditions in America and around the world throughout history. Disruptive protest launched the nation in Revolution against tyranny, was required to overcome onerous and oppressive unregulated labor traditions, raise women's suffrage, gain basic civil rights for Blacks and Gays, and challenge unjust, deadly wars . None of those essential movements would have progressed under "nice, quiet, polite contributions."

CK has leveraged his uniquely visible position to add to the force of a movement that demands nothing more than equal treatment of all Americans by law enforcement.

I'm sure there are plenty of service members who object. Hell, roughly a 1/3 of the electorate thinks Donald Trump would make a great chief executive of the world's leading democracy. I'm not impressed.