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Incredibly weird post. I would think one of the great draws of Toronto to women is the socially reserved nature which greatly looks down on approaching and hitting on women. That's what the weirdos, and 'creeps' as the girls I know around here call them, do.
I have never known a girl say she doesn't get hit on or approached. In fact, I would think most would perfectlu hapoy with never getting hit on or approached.
Incredibly weird post. I would think one of the great draws of Toronto to women is the socially reserved nature which greatly looks down on approaching and hitting on women. That's what the weirdos, and 'creeps' as the girls I know around here call them, do.
I have never known a girl say she doesn't get hit on or approached. In fact, I would think most would perfectlu hapoy with never getting hit on or approached.
That's why a lot of immigrants from other places find the social scene awkward. I guess other cultures need to interact with one another. While in canada you are a creep. It's ok though. Go down south and these types do not have the same type of power as they are faced with a Majority of social butterflies.
If these girls want to be left alone leave them be. Just know that that type of attitude really only thrives in toronto. You would be an outcast in other places.
So are you actually now in italy, or did you say you only visited briefly just last month? Yeah, my parents were italian and I gotta say, they really know how to enjoy their social lives over there. People will befriend you quickly and often invite me to some happening or party on our first meeting just out of courtesy. I even got invited to a 'gita', they called it, or a trip to Croatia (sidenote: highly recommend to anyone that they go to Croatia at least once in their lives. Beautiful place). Portugal, though, is my favorite. Great weather, great food, not as expensive as italy, close to warm beaches in the Algarve should you need a little sun exposure. Portugal rocks.
Toronto would be a significantly better place long term if we could just thaw the social environment a little bit.
I am not living in Italy but went to Venice for a couple of days after Easter. I have been to Italy + Sicily numerous times and on rather long visits, when I was working in Europe back in 09 - 11, and prior moving to Toronto. In addition there is an Italian community in South Africa. Anyway it is quite common knowledge that the warmth, hospitality + their passion for life of the Medittarenean people is quite different to North Americans.
This is is what I love - the energy one feels in Italy is just so different. Everything from food, fashion, service, people's manners is just soo much better there. Obviously this is all objective but I think deep inside I just connect more with that kind of lifestyle.
Toronto is a great city in it's own unique ways and it is constantly improving in various aspects of life, which is great - people who move there either adapt or not. I find that living in both worlds (North America + Europe) - one gets a better perseption of what both offer. I think Toronto is great for making money, and then Italy is great for spending it :-) I personally would love to buy a vineyard in rural Italy (perhaps South) and just have a vacation home. I feel that is just so far worth more than owning a cottage up in North Ontario.
Incredibly weird post. I would think one of the great draws of Toronto to women is the socially reserved nature which greatly looks down on approaching and hitting on women. That's what the weirdos, and 'creeps' as the girls I know around here call them, do.
I have never known a girl say she doesn't get hit on or approached. In fact, I would think most would perfectlu hapoy with never getting hit on or approached.
I do not think by any means that all or most women in this city do not like getting hit on. This is an odd assumption. However, there is hitting on someone and there is making some on feel really uncomfortable. I will give a few examples.
If a woman is walking around by herself in a secluded area and it is late at night. I guy might need to be considerate of the fact that he should be a bit more aware that she might feel intimidated by the situation to some extent. So if you are going to approach her you should probably tone your approach down a bit if you don't want to confuse her ex is he trying to assault me or is he a normal guy trying to meet me.
I have had men approach me on empty buses and literally sit in the seat right beside. That is insanely uncomfortable and intimidating. You want to approach someone you don't know to get to know them ease in and don't just pounce on them. Be aware of the social space rules. People here do not usually feel comfortable when someone they don't know is standing so close to them. It often feels like a threatening situation.
It also takes many women time to develop their own self of security. They might look confident, but not really feel confident or understand how to express their sexuality. At least based on the women I know here it takes time to develope. They might like you, but really be shy. Like that teenage girl I saw on the subways who brushed off that guy trying to talk with her. I 100% see myself at that age doing the exact same thing. It does not mean she did not like him, but more likely that she was intimidated by the situation and shy because other people were seeing the situation. At a certain ages especially young women are pretty conscious of what other people are seeing them do in public place even if they choose to dress less modestly.
Also behaviour and responses are effected by the environment. Many women tend to be more sexually open when the whole world is not watch. I will be the first person to admit I was 100% more open when not in my normal environment ex no one knows me and I am not being watched and judged by people that can have a direct impact of my social standing ex. family, neighbours, co-workers. That is why for me can understand the foreign factor ex meeting someone else outside of your normal environment because the pressure is decreased for both people as there is a pretty reasonable understanding that they might not ever see you again and there is little impact on the rest of your life so have the freedom to explore without as many consequences.
Age and comfort with overtly sexually suggestive pickup lines or approaches. Not all young women have sexual confidence. They might look and dress like they just walked off the stage of a strip club, but that does not mean that have true confidence in that area. So the "your ass looks good in that outfit" type approaches might get you either told off or a cat and mouse like situation (ex she wants to be chase her around and beg for her attention before she gives you her number). When I was approached by someone with that sort of line as a teen or person in my early 20s it was usually not received well and would make me feel comfortable. As a more secure adult I would not really feel threatend or that uncomfortable about that kind of comment.
It you are with a group of men and you approach by a woman by herself. It is also a bit more uncomfortable.
I am sure it sucks being shot down by a woman, but is that not a huge factor in the excitement of it all. If you play a game and always know for 100% sure you are going to win ... doesn't it start to loose its excitement ?
So are you actually now in italy, or did you say you only visited briefly just last month? Yeah, my parents were italian and I gotta say, they really know how to enjoy their social lives over there. People will befriend you quickly and often invite me to some happening or party on our first meeting just out of courtesy. I even got invited to a 'gita', they called it, or a trip to Croatia (sidenote: highly recommend to anyone that they go to Croatia at least once in their lives. Beautiful place). Portugal, though, is my favorite. Great weather, great food, not as expensive as italy, close to warm beaches in the Algarve should you need a little sun exposure. Portugal rocks.
Toronto would be a significantly better place long term if we could just thaw the social environment a little bit.
With reference to Croatia - I have heard alot about it, as some of my family members who live in Czech used to vacation there on a yearly basis. Croatia and what was the former Yugoslavia was a very popular vacation spot for many former Communist countries back then and it continues to be so. I also have a mate who was born in SA but he is Croatian. He moved to Split, and he is having a blast. Portugal - I haven't been to, yet however I have a couple of Portuguese friends in Toronto, who were actually born in Mozambique. I have heard all about it - the cuisine, scenery, way of life etc. Their economy is not doing really well though so the opportunities for business are limited in this sense. I will def check out Portugal one day soon.
I am not living in Italy but went to Venice for a couple of days after Easter. I have been to Italy + Sicily numerous times and on rather long visits, when I was working in Europe back in 09 - 11, and prior moving to Toronto. In addition there is an Italian community in South Africa. Anyway it is quite common knowledge that the warmth, hospitality + their passion for life of the Medittarenean people is quite different to North Americans.
This is is what I love - the energy one feels in Italy is just so different. Everything from food, fashion, service, people's manners is just soo much better there. Obviously this is all objective but I think deep inside I just connect more with that kind of lifestyle.
Toronto is a great city in it's own unique ways and it is constantly improving in various aspects of life, which is great - people who move there either adapt or not. I find that living in both worlds (North America + Europe) - one gets a better perseption of what both offer. I think Toronto is great for making money, and then Italy is great for spending it :-) I personally would love to buy a vineyard in rural Italy (perhaps South) and just have a vacation home. I feel that is just so far worth more than owning a cottage up in North Ontario.
Sounds like a great idea ! If someone wants to live a part of the city that feels like cottage country or greener they need to check out south scarborough specially south of Kingston Road. You have beach, lower population density and lots and lots of green space. Many people also have their own boats which they park in the Marina. You also have more wild life (ex deers, cayotes, rabbits, foxes). It is a totally different feel. Different pockets of this city have very different vibes.
That's why a lot of immigrants from other places find the social scene awkward. I guess other cultures need to interact with one another. While in canada you are a creep. It's ok though. Go down south and these types do not have the same type of power as they are faced with a Majority of social butterflies.
If these girls want to be left alone leave them be. Just know that that type of attitude really only thrives in toronto. You would be an outcast in other places.
I always thought this was the case in big cities in general. I am originally from KW and that is where most of my family lives. There and those other towns/small cities like Hamilton and London it's much more 'natural' to start talking with people and I have to admit my guard is a lot more down in those environments than in a big-city in Toronto where generally everyone is self-absorbed and must have some agenda if they decide to 'randomly' strike up a conversation. I am still a small-town guy at heart and still at times find this big-city culture hard to adjust to even though I have been living here for 12+ years now.
Still I am skeptical. Could an 8 hour drive that separates two cities such as Toronto and NYC have such vastly different cultures and social norms? I don't honestly know and would be interested in the input of others since I haven't travelled outside of Ontario let alone Canada.
I do not think by any means that all or most women in this city do not like getting hit on. This is an odd assumption. However, there is hitting on someone and there is making some on feel really uncomfortable. I will give a few examples.
If a woman is walking around by herself in a secluded area and it is late at night. I guy might need to be considerate of the fact that he should be a bit more aware that she might feel intimidated by the situation to some extent. So if you are going to approach her you should probably tone your approach down a bit if you don't want to confuse her ex is he trying to assault me or is he a normal guy trying to meet me.
I have had men approach me on empty buses and literally sit in the seat right beside. That is insanely uncomfortable and intimidating. You want to approach someone you don't know to get to know them ease in and don't just pounce on them. Be aware of the social space rules. People here do not usually feel comfortable when someone they don't know is standing so close to them. It often feels like a threatening situation.
It also takes many women time to develop their own self of security. They might look confident, but not really feel confident or understand how to express their sexuality. At least based on the women I know here it takes time to develope. They might like you, but really be shy. Like that teenage girl I saw on the subways who brushed off that guy trying to talk with her. I 100% see myself at that age doing the exact same thing. It does not mean she did not like him, but more likely that she was intimidated by the situation and shy because other people were seeing the situation. At a certain ages especially young women are pretty conscious of what other people are seeing them do in public place even if they choose to dress less modestly.
Also behaviour and responses are effected by the environment. Many women tend to be more sexually open when the whole world is not watch. I will be the first person to admit I was 100% more open when not in my normal environment ex no one knows me and I am not being watched and judged by people that can have a direct impact of my social standing ex. family, neighbours, co-workers. That is why for me can understand the foreign factor ex meeting someone else outside of your normal environment because the pressure is decreased for both people as there is a pretty reasonable understanding that they might not ever see you again and there is little impact on the rest of your life so have the freedom to explore without as many consequences.
Age and comfort with overtly sexually suggestive pickup lines or approaches. Not all young women have sexual confidence. They might look and dress like they just walked off the stage of a strip club, but that does not mean that have true confidence in that area. So the "your ass looks good in that outfit" type approaches might get you either told off or a cat and mouse like situation (ex she wants to be chase her around and beg for her attention before she gives you her number). When I was approached by someone with that sort of line as a teen or person in my early 20s it was usually not received well and would make me feel comfortable. As a more secure adult I would not really feel threatend or that uncomfortable about that kind of comment.
It you are with a group of men and you approach by a woman by herself. It is also a bit more uncomfortable.
I am sure it sucks being shot down by a woman, but is that not a huge factor in the excitement of it all. If you play a game and always know for 100% sure you are going to win ... doesn't it start to loose its excitement ?
Lol, you have bombarded me with an ocean of statements to respond to. I can see you feel very passionate about this topic.
It might seem like an assumption but this has been my experience with a wide cross-section of girls I have known in both high school and university along with those in my own family. I can see where you are coming from in terms of how men should approach and how unsavory some approaches can be. From what I have heard and observed girls in general do not want to be approached. They only want to be courted through 'acceptable' avenues such as through their social circles or online dating. Any other avenue is completely accrptable. I will explain why I think this is and what I generally got from past female friends and those in my family. They will be judged harshly by their friends if they say they met their boyfriend at the bookstore, or at the concert, or worst of all on the TTC. You look like pretty desperate and worthless if you can't get a man through your social circle or at worst through online dating. Hence even if they meet a man they are attracted to who approaches them in the 'right way' they would still reject them. They also hinted that essentially it reduces the man's stature greatly in their eyes for if he has to approach them at the park or on TTC that must mean he has very few options and is looking pretty desperate otherwise he would use his social circle to get into a relationship. Hey, that is just what I am getting from them. Feel free to disagree.
As for me I would never do the approaching thing. The last thing I ever want is to come across as a creep. I am also way too busy and running from one place to another when out in public that I have no time to waste like that. Also look at the whole street harassment that is blowing up right now. The popularity of that movement to me demonstrates a large number of women do not want to be approached and are tired of being 'harassed' by men in the streets. That is a pretty big deal. Lastly, just how many girls look approachable in the city? They either have headphones on whether they are or aren't listening to music, have a permanent scowl on their face, and avoid eye-contact at all costs. It's not exactly completely crazy to assume trying to strike up a conversation with thesr girls can and will turn sour very quickly.
You also mentioned in another thread if I remember correctly that you are in your 30s. IMO that is a big gap from the people in my age and what is considered socially acceptable to them vs your age group. So there is that aspect that you might not be considering.
I always thought this was the case in big cities in general. I am originally from KW and that is where most of my family lives. There and those other towns/small cities like Hamilton and London it's much more 'natural' to start talking with people and I have to admit my guard is a lot more down in those environments than in a big-city in Toronto where generally everyone is self-absorbed and must have some agenda if they decide to 'randomly' strike up a conversation. I am still a small-town guy at heart and still at times find this big-city culture hard to adjust to even though I have been living here for 12+ years now.
Still I am skeptical. Could an 8 hour drive that separates two cities such as Toronto and NYC have such vastly different cultures and social norms? I don't honestly know and would be interested in the input of others since I haven't travelled outside of Ontario let alone Canada.
Imo there is a big difference between nyc and toronto in terms of pretty much everything. First of all nyc is very American. However it is not like the south where it is the norm to small talk everyone who passes you by. They will let you know they are interested right away as there is no time to waste in a new york minute. People are much more aggressive and go for it. They are also more direct. It's new york aftetall. The passiveNess in most torontonians is seen as weakness so you don't find as many passive people. A lot more blunt in your face and rude. People say it's arrogant but I guess if you are a new yorker politeness or passiveNess doesn't get you to the top like it does here.
You should leave Ontario and check it out though I was expecting new york to be a lot more rude than it was when I first went then I found out new yorkers match my personality type more. That why I like it there. I'm naturally more direct and blunt and it feels new yorkers understand when I act so. Here people get offended so I have to walk on eggshells to not offend anybody.
Also passive aggressiveness is not my Forte. Not a fan of it.
Lol, you have bombarded me with an ocean of statements to respond to. I can see you feel very passionate about this topic.
It might seem like an assumption but this has been my experience with a wide cross-section of girls I have known in both high school and university along with those in my own family. I can see where you are coming from in terms of how men should approach and how unsavory some approaches can be. From what I have heard and observed girls in general do not want to be approached. They only want to be courted through 'acceptable' avenues such as through their social circles or online dating. Any other avenue is completely accrptable. I will explain why I think this is and what I generally got from past female friends and those in my family. They will be judged harshly by their friends if they say they met their boyfriend at the bookstore, or at the concert, or worst of all on the TTC. You look like pretty desperate and worthless if you can't get a man through your social circle or at worst through online dating. Hence even if they meet a man they are attracted to who approaches them in the 'right way' they would still reject them. They also hinted that essentially it reduces the man's stature greatly in their eyes for if he has to approach them at the park or on TTC that must mean he has very few options and is looking pretty desperate otherwise he would use his social circle to get into a relationship. Hey, that is just what I am getting from them. Feel free to disagree.
As for me I would never do the approaching thing. The last thing I ever want is to come across as a creep. I am also way too busy and running from one place to another when out in public that I have no time to waste like that. Also look at the whole street harassment that is blowing up right now. The popularity of that movement to me demonstrates a large number of women do not want to be approached and are tired of being 'harassed' by men in the streets. That is a pretty big deal. Lastly, just how many girls look approachable in the city? They either have headphones on whether they are or aren't listening to music, have a permanent scowl on their face, and avoid eye-contact at all costs. It's not exactly completely crazy to assume trying to strike up a conversation with thesr girls can and will turn sour very quickly.
You also mentioned in another thread if I remember correctly that you are in your 30s. IMO that is a big gap from the people in my age and what is considered socially acceptable to them vs your age group. So there is that aspect that you might not be considering.
It's weird that girls here think you are being a creep. As if pretending to be on your phone or listening to music isn't weird introvertred behavior in itself. Lol. Its ok I don't have to get to talk to you I can stare at nothing and be bored too. Which is what I do in the city. This why I like going other places. I like to socialize and no feel like a creep for making small talk. No I don't want your number, unless youre hot, I just like to friendly banter. And ill literally talk to anyone that gives me time of day unless they actually say/do something wierd. They say the grass isn't greener on the other side. But in this case I think it is.
I feel like Toronto can be soulless sometimes. And I don't want to get lost in that again. I'll try to be different but I must say being different and standing out is not appreciated here. Tor onto loves the status quo.
Imo
I do think the club scene is good though. I'd say great but I been to vegas. Lol. But I am 31 now and it's just not as fun. Due to my age. Or the fact everyone wants to record everything and always wants to take a picture. I guess looking like having fun is more important than actually having fun. I guess pics or it didn't happen is the Mantra for these kids.
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Getting hit on ...
?
! If someone wants to live a part of the city that feels like cottage country or greener they need to check out south scarborough specially south of Kingston Road. You have beach, lower population density and lots and lots of green space. Many people also have their own boats which they park in the Marina. You also have more wild life (ex deers, cayotes, rabbits, foxes). It is a totally different feel. Different pockets of this city have very different vibes.
