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I'm still not sure if the writers expect viewers to be rooting for Miss Bunting because she's fiesty and outspoken, or if we're supposed to wish she'd shut up and go away.
Preferably the former, I suspect. Having watched a lot of British TV on Netflix over the past couple of years, a recurring element in all of them is the upstairs/downstairs class structure which carried forward well into the post WWII years. English aristocracy are still a class onto themselves and the lower classes are always poking jabs. You see and hear it in Foyle's War all the time, including from Foyle himself.
I read a recent bio in Wiki of Laurence Fox (also in a Foyle's War episode - who, himself can be a real scene stealer) - son of James Fox, nephew of Edward Fox, both excellent and respected English actors. His family is not exactly chopped liver. Well, Laurence attended school with the nobility and always felt inferior.
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At the age of 13 he entered Harrow School where, according to him, he was "shy around women, sensitive and a bit naïve".[6] Although he made friends and liked the drama teacher, he hated the school's strict regime and felt despised and out of place among pupils with titles and wealth. Constantly in trouble for smoking, fighting, going into town and seeing girls, he was eventually expelled a few weeks before his A-levels. According to him, "It was something to do with a girl at a dance. I went back to take the exams, but I wasn't allowed to speak to anyone." In hindsight, Fox has said that his experience at Harrow enabled him to portray "toffs" – the upper class boys looking down on him and whom he disliked – with much insight and cynicism.
Nonetheless, Ms. Bunting's rude, disrespectful behavior only reinforces the aristo's perception of the class from which she has sprung and does a wonderful job of proving their point - imho.
Edith was told, clearly, to stay away for awhile. I don't blame Margie for closing the door in her face. Frankly, I'm impressed she had the balls to do.
If Edith can't tolerate the present situation she needs to find a solution. Maybe she will get really nuts and kidnap the child.
The Miss Bunting ridiculousness needs to just stop. Thomas needs to just grow some and keep her out of the house. After all, it is not his house. She is waaay over the top for being so incredibly rude in someone else's home. She isn't making her point, she is cramming it down everyone's throat which is never heard for what is really is. Fellow's needs to move on from this one. It's gotten tired.
She's been there tutoring Daisy. And members of the family keep encouraging Branson to invite her to dinner. He didn't until they suggested it. He can see her on the estate doing his work and have a conversation without Robert being there to ignite things out of the house and I doubt they care. He wasn't overly comfortable inviting her.
I really don't see her as being rude. She is simply speaking her mind. Just like Robert is stuck in his world, hers is just as defined. Both of them need to give the other some space. It would do Robert some GOOD to see someone else's point since the world is going to come crashing down on him eventually.
So long as they have not said that Miss Bunting can't come and work with Daisy, then she is allowed and if they don't like having her at dinner, stop bugging Branson to ask her....
As for Edith, she can establish she is the child's mother. If she chooses this it will likely exile her from home, but especially being the daughter of a member of the aristrocy she'll get her back. And she should have taken the leap before, without torturing herself with the glances and the grieving.
At least miss Bunting can act, not like lady Mary , her actings atrocious .
I could see Tom Branson & Lady Mary as an item , he seems to take a liking to her , but I guess he's off to America soon .
I'm wondering the same thing. Maybe he isn't off to America. Think about it: if Lady Mary marries Charles or Tony she would have to move to their estate and wouldn't be at Downton anymore. I think she will go round and round with the others and then realize 'love was right there in front of her the whole time'. Also, if Tom goes to America he takes Sybie with him.
The lessons continue, for sure. She'll be back - both below and above stairs since Cora is so bound and determined that Tom have a "friend." Not only is Cora obtuse when it comes to her children - she is obtuse on just about everything else, it appears. Or, is allowing this as a passive-aggressive retribution towards Robert for his lack of respect for Cora's opinions - at the moment directed at artwork.
Or is it in part because Cora is still an American. Her family did not come from priviledge or wealth. She was married to Robert to give the family 'connections' and to keep the family afloat. I don't think it overly bothers her that Miss Bunting has very different views and I'll bet she'd LOVE to be able to have her own say. I simply don't think its a massive issue for Cora and she sees Tom is lonely and has a friend. Miss Bunting is opinionated and blunt, but while he isn't used to the blunt, Robert is equally opinionated. If he doesn't want her there he should say so.
I'd really like to see Cora get tired of the pretend game like her mother did and see how Robert liked it.
She's been there tutoring Daisy. And members of the family keep encouraging Branson to invite her to dinner. He didn't until they suggested it. He can see her on the estate doing his work and have a conversation without Robert being there to ignite things out of the house and I doubt they care. He wasn't overly comfortable inviting her.
I really don't see her as being rude. She is simply speaking her mind. Just like Robert is stuck in his world, hers is just as defined. Both of them need to give the other some space. It would do Robert some GOOD to see someone else's point since the world is going to come crashing down on him eventually.
So long as they have not said that Miss Bunting can't come and work with Daisy, then she is allowed and if they don't like having her at dinner, stop bugging Branson to ask her....
As for Edith, she can establish she is the child's mother. If she chooses this it will likely exile her from home, but especially being the daughter of a member of the aristrocy she'll get her back. And she should have taken the leap before, without torturing herself with the glances and the grieving.
There's a difference between speaking one's mind and being rude to your host. And I think accusing Robert of wanting to keep his "serfs" on the Downton estate goes beyond telling truth to Power - it's inflammatory and untrue. Robert has never restrained any servant or tenant farmer from leaving. He's actually tried to be kind and helpful to many of his servants; albeit in his entitled, privileged capacity - how many of his peers would have sent Mrs. Patmore to an eye specialist and paid for her care to save her sight, rather than just let her go and hire a younger cook? And how many of Robert's peers would have kept Thomas on after he was revealed to be a homosexual? Yes, Robert's a stick-in-the-mud in some ways; and more Victorian/Edwardian than PostWWI. That doesn't mean that a socialist guest should not be polite to him at his own dinner table.
Can't figure out why Rose is forcing Sarah on Tom and the rest of the family. He doesn't seem to like her well enough to find a way to fit her into the family, the way Sybil did for him.
Edith and Tom would tear up the journalistic world! Daisy definitely isn't going to be a cook for the rest of her life.
I never thought about it like that, but yes, what a great point - I have an aunt born in 1918, and an uncle born in 1922, both still alive.
Tom likes her as a friend, and its nice to have someone who he can talk about things he believes in. I think he's uncomfortable with her at dinner and wouldn't have asked her unless pushed. Rose is young and lives in a very different world than her older family does and isn't a problem for her if she disagrees with them. She isn't going to go off and have a hissyfit like Robert.
Edith and Tom and Daisy are looking ahead, even Cora in her own way and Mary in her own. Robert is stuck in old puddy.
My mom was born in 1916, and its hard to imagine what a different world they lived in then, even in California.
If Gregson is dead and she inherits she could move to London and take the child with her. At that point, I don't think she'd care what sort of problem the family would have. Edith isn't the retretating wimp she seems like and push comes to shove the potential will show.
I just don't see this working very well for either of them pre-WWII. Edith and the child would be social pariahs amongst her own class if she did this. Family aside, what kind of future would that child have in upper-class society with absolutely no lineage. Would she try to send the girl to school, or hire a governess??
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Between the wars working class children went to elementary schools. Middle class children went to grammar schools and upper class children went to public schools.
Public school in the UK means an exclusive private school in the U.S. Would any exclusive public school admit this child?? Would she be accepted by her classmates - whose upper class parents would surely be disapproving.
Although, after the War, should they survive the London bombing (no doubt they'd move back to Downton until the War ended - provided the govt doesn't commandeer the estate for war/hospital purposes), it is possible there might be some life for them in the UK.
At least Edith has her own money from granddad's trust. So, she won't be destitute. But, not an easy life.
If Miss Bunting finds aristocratic airs and privilege to be intolerable, then the proper solution would be for her to decline invitations to dine with them. Once she has accepted however, she has obligated herself to gracious behavior while she is in their home and eating their food. At the very least, if she feels compelled to express disagreement, she may register it politely, but not in an openly provocative manner which she knows will infuriate her host.
There's a difference between speaking one's mind and being rude to your host. And I think accusing Robert of wanting to keep his "serfs" on the Downton estate goes beyond telling truth to Power - it's inflammatory and untrue. Robert has never restrained any servant or tenant farmer from leaving. He's actually tried to be kind and helpful to many of his servants; albeit in his entitled, privileged capacity - how many of his peers would have sent Mrs. Patmore to an eye specialist and paid for her care to save her sight, rather than just let her go and hire a younger cook? And how many of Robert's peers would have kept Thomas on after he was revealed to be a homosexual?
Yes, Robert's a stick-in-the-mud in some ways; and more Victorian/Edwardian than PostWWI. That doesn't mean that a socialist guest should not be polite to him at his own dinner table.
Of course. It is just plain good manners.
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Originally Posted by Grandstander
If Miss Bunting finds aristocratic airs and privilege to be intolerable, then the proper solution would be for her to decline invitations to dine with them. Once she has accepted however, she has obligated herself to gracious behavior while she is in their home and eating their food. At the very least, if she feels compelled to express disagreement, she may register it politely, but not in an openly provocative manner which she knows will infuriate her host.
Absolutely. Robert did nothing to provoke her. She, on the other hand, looks for opportunities to provoke. Miss Bunting is evidencing all the elements of an extremely ill-bred person who never was taught - or refused to learn - polite behavior. Very childish, actually. This rebelliousness is more akin to the actions of a teenager, not a thinking adult.
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Daisy definitely isn't going to be a cook for the rest of her life.
