U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-08-2020, 10:18 AM
 
14,792 posts, read 3,932,617 times
Reputation: 9510

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
Bingo, we have a winner.

The first thing an animal does when it catches prey, is to grab it by the throat, and suffocate it.
Obviously this is why no screams were heard, even tho one guy state he heard screams from as distant mountain.
This guy stated he heard screams, then saw some guy running, and hop into a white car,

Boy this dude must have had incredible eye site, to see all this from a distant mountain.


Bob.
Please explain then, how a wild animal could have done this and dragged the body away WITHOUT creating a trail to follow? Or why the search dogs whimpered and were too scared to search?


* a predator such as a bear or mountain lion, when they drag prey away, they leave a trail behind that can easily be seen and tracked. (try dragging a 50lb duffle bag across the forest floor and see the trail it creates in the process).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-08-2020, 11:57 AM
 
14,792 posts, read 3,932,617 times
Reputation: 9510
Dwight McCarter, author of Lost!: A Ranger’s Journal of Search and Rescue, who had a strange tale to tell about the Martin case. McCarter claimed that during the search for Dennis, the special forces units that had been called in had barely communicated at all with authorities, rangers, or civilian searchers, instead working on their own, as if they had their own agenda, and that they had been heavily armed as if expecting something big to happen. What could this mean? Another weird detail is that the lead FBI investigator on the case, an Agent Jim Rike, later apparently committed suicide for unknown reasons.”

Image by Andreas Suraurer

Adding to all of this is the presence of armed special operations forces troops prowling about in the wake of the vanishing. What were they doing there for a civilian disappearance and why wouldn’t they keep law enforcement informed of what they were up to? This is the aspect of the case that was brought up by James Dowell in his mail, in which he directed me to a comment by an individual on a thread at a forum claiming to be an ex-special forces officer, which offers plenty to think about. The comment originally appeared on the site “Tales of the Weird,” in 2014 by a user called Harold Cleveland, in which he sheds some possible insight to this military aspect of the Dennis Martin case. I am including the full comment here:
To all concerned,
I’ve read some incredibly uninformed and ignorant comments here and I feel it’s my responsibility to help out when appropriate. My name is Max and I am a retired Army SOCOM Commander. Spent 26 years in service with most of them attached to 10th mountain division in Colorado. Our Special Forces are NEVER called to assist in civilian operations. That falls to the local National Guard and approved by the state governer . The fact that they were armed as well is another huge no no. During my command and every other mission I was aware of we were NOT allowed by Federal protocol to do either. Something is very wrong with this missing kid scenario.
I’ve done some research on this case both while on active duty and after my retirement. The inside facts of this case depict a frightening investigation. Bottom line is that searching started within a few minutes of the boy’s disappearance and lasted three months with every resource imaginable being deployed. Don’t even start with “the terrain was difficult, holes and caves and cliffs and creeks”, etc. Our special troops can find almost anything, anytime and in ANY terrain. We have the highest technology available worldwide and easily the best training and real world wartime and mission specific experience that the normal civilian populace can scarcely imagine. After studying this case, the fact that NO TRACE of the boy was ever found is mind boggling.
The Green Berets that were tasked in this search were there for a specific reason. They were armed for a specific reason. I can’t and won’t say why because my oath documents won’t allow it. But I will remind you of these facts. Nationwide there have only been four occasions where the special forces were brought in on a civilian missing persons case. Two of these involved a possible armed perpetrator. The other two were this case and another similar to it about three years later and regionally nearby. This is out of thousands of missing cases since the early sixties when our special troops were born. There is no such thing as “well, they were training nearby anyway and….”, nope, we as Commanders were NEVER allowed to divert orders unless the division general officer (at least a one star) within SOCOM approved it. For that to happen, it MUST be for reasons that have a DIRECT effect on our national security. No missing persons case has ever been on that level ever based on it’s own merit. My research proved that to my own eyes.
In conclusion, this case goes way beyond a simple missing boy. Let me put it this way to you skeptics out there. In 1969 (same year as this case) in the southern jungles of Cambodia we lost a man on team maneuvers one night. This was in some of the worst weather and impossible terrain known in this world. His tracks were instantly washed away and nighttime operations were notoriously difficult as a rule. After a weeks time, it was our dogs that finally tracked him down. They live for these missions and they love it. In the Martin case, the dogs just laid down whining and refused to search. Several sets of dogs of different breeds. The FBI second in command told me this in person. That fact alone promotes the high strangeness factor. These cases are far from normal and must be reinvestigated to ensure that the horror that this family went through never happens to anyone again.
When it’s YOUR child that slips off for just a minute and the panic sets in and assets are immediately deployed in great mass, you would expect to find the child pretty quick. But when they just flat disappear like smoke as in this case, it baffles even the most experienced of us and breaks our hearts as well. I hope this hideous event never happens to any of you for I have seen it many times firsthand and you just cannot imagine anything worse, God bless and thanks for reading.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2020, 12:10 PM
 
12,574 posts, read 21,179,959 times
Reputation: 21145
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam812 View Post
It is in the article linked to in the first post. Isn't that why it was posted in this section instead of a more appropriate one for missing people?

Quote from article: or even something akin to the legendary Sasquatch, might have been involved with the kidnapping.
I had to go to the missing persons forum to check. In CD’s case, the missing person forum is more for “My mom had a sister, Lucy Smith, and they had a big fight in 1985, and Lucy left the area. I want to find my Aunt Lucy.”

UM&P is more the Judge Crater kind of missing. This missing child is definitely more a Judge Crater case.
__________________
Solly says — Be nice!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2020, 01:13 PM
 
1,231 posts, read 281,012 times
Reputation: 1246
The Green Berets weren't "heavily armed" during the search. This is a photo of them just before they joined the search.


-- U.S. Army Special Forces confer in Cades Cove before joining the search for Dennis Martin, 6, on June 18, 1969, in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2020, 01:36 PM
 
2,892 posts, read 1,239,934 times
Reputation: 5786
Default Hundreds of these in national parks UsA

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I was reading about this earlier and found it pretty interesting, Im not sure if its ever been discussed on CD or not. There are so many strange aspects to this case, its hard to keep track of them all!


https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2019/...0-years-later/


I have a feeling though, that man the couple saw walking thru the woods naked, with something slung over his shoulder...and investigators stated it was too far from where the kid went missing to be associated...I think that was probably a mistake on the investigators part!!


What I would like to find out first, is if Special Forces were truly involved in the search.

There is a mystery that remains unsolved for decades. Multitudes of people have disappeared mysteriously in national parks referred to as the 411. A series of books have been written.The following is a map of all these cases. Refer to source https://downthechupacabrahole.com/20...ational-parks/

Oddly, the National Parks do not keep records of disappearances.

Check out YouTube also for documetaries about this.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2020, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
6,183 posts, read 7,999,677 times
Reputation: 7931
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Please explain then, how a wild animal could have done this and dragged the body away WITHOUT creating a trail to follow? Or why the search dogs whimpered and were too scared to search?


* a predator such as a bear or mountain lion, when they drag prey away, they leave a trail behind that can easily be seen and tracked. (try dragging a 50lb duffle bag across the forest floor and see the trail it creates in the process).
If it happened to be a mountain lion, it could have dragged the child through bushes, and never went on a trail.
Therefore, no marks to follow.

Bob.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2020, 03:40 PM
 
11,520 posts, read 10,898,701 times
Reputation: 4515
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
If it happened to be a mountain lion, it could have dragged the child through bushes, and never went on a trail.
Therefore, no marks to follow.

Bob.
Agreed but the bot's scent would have been dragged through the brush as well as the big cat.

Everything leaves a trail. Only some are experienced enough to find them. Dragging through bushes would leave more of a trail. Scent and physical and visual.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2020, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
15,911 posts, read 12,700,152 times
Reputation: 11959
In kitty61's post #61 most of the disappearances are in the higher elevations in National Parks. It stands to reason that most of them were not found simply because the terrain was too difficult or dangerous for the searchers. The idea of searching for a missing person is not to have more killed or missing. They want to find the missing person, but safely find them, so both can return home.

One other consideration is that we have had bootleggers, drug makers and growers, as well as drug labs set up on National and State Lands. They do not want to be found and anybody that stumbles into one of their locations might simply disappear.

When the weather turns one can easily get lost in the deep woods. Heavy rain, snow and ice, can all confuse even the most knowledgeable hikers. Once the tree branches shake and bend or are covered in frozen precipitation; nothing looks like it did when it was clear.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2020, 08:42 PM
 
1,231 posts, read 281,012 times
Reputation: 1246
https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/foia/upl...e_REDACTED.pdf

86 page report regarding search
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-08-2020, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Southwest
1,692 posts, read 1,171,540 times
Reputation: 1225
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
What I would like to find out first, is if Special Forces were truly involved in the search.
Further down is a pic showing Special Forces being involved in the search. An important question is was it a bunch of them getting permssion to do so because they wanted to help out, or did the command order them to do so. If ordered by their command, it could be something related to the security of the country.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
I see that we have again a child going missing with parents only feet away and then a Thuderstorm rolls in and 2.5 inches of rain comes down.
Same scenario in many missing cases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Im going to check on what the weather was like that day.


I dont think this was a normal 'gone missing' or kidnapping case. For the FBI to be involved, there had to be some possibility he taken across state lines, (there does not appear to be anything to suggest that).


Another strange aspect was the search dogs reluctance to search and strange behavior (whimpering and cowering).
These are things David Paulides brings up time and time again. Lodestar's post below.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
Author and former Law Enforcement Officer David Paulides has written a number of books on mysterious disappearances which are occurring in National Parks. He's been a guest on a number of podcasts and complains that the government has been very reluctant to provide him with information for his research.

I don't know what to make of that. Wilderness areas are dangerous. Especially for people who haven't grown up in those areas...
Why does the government reluctant to provide David Paulides with info? No one knows.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top