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I'll be happy to give my views on topics if you want...always willing to chat with mountaineers..!! Seems you have very similar problems to us back here too...from the serious to the downright stupid...!![/b]
Thanks for reading this.....Trev from UK
I'm a new resident to WV, and have a high opinion of WV'rs friendliness, generosity, and sensibilities. Wondering if you, r601, and buzz have noticed how all too often the natives here seem to have such low opinions of themselves as if low self esteem were sanctioned by the state as a culture unto itself. Is it just my opinion? Have you seen it too? I'm not talking about healthy humility, I'm talking about self deprecation to the point where they make themselves less able to help themselves and all but forgo the benefits of being part of the USA.
I'm native to NY and see no point in apologizing to anyone for existing/standing in my own shoes, but there they are (someone 20+ yrs senior to me) apologizing to me for breathing! I'm flabbergasted, but then again, like r601, I've got to remember I came here with my own cultural sensibilities.
Sometimes I can laugh about it, but I admit sometimes it just makes me angry that they hurt themselves this way under the guise of social graces. Particularly in business demeanor, where they get so mired in complex social niceties they forget what their actual job was! Not the image they think they're projecting with 'open for business' motto, they're coming across as mimics of movers and shakers with no qualifications or training. This is fodder for an SNL parody they're unwittingly doing to themselves.
I read comments from atlantagreg and DK and think to myself what a mistake it is for WV to try to claim to be a world class player, or to try to pass themselves off as a miniature version of what some other city's claim to fame is. There's a uniform that goes along with that paradigm that's antithetical to the real WV & it's citizens sensibilities. Are you sure you want to go this route is all I can think. Far more scathing critiques regarding business demeanor will follow if they answer yes, and what they will lose of themselves as a result might be too high a price to pay to be that mentally entrenched in capitalist philosophies.
Trev can you imagine if all of a sudden British citizens got insecure about themselves and decided to bulldoze Buckingham Palace so they might replicate the Pyramids of Giza for the sake of status/artificial esteem/world approval?? Sad? VERY! Why is it WV'rs cannot see that every time they negotiate with postures of weakness like this, they will lose economically? Instead of being on the bus with a spiffy new economic engine, they'll get themselves under the wheels of the same bus!
Buzz touched on a point- the argument he's had with himself for over 20 yrs. There's a persistent inability for people to articulate just what it is about WV that makes it so special. When they can focus upon intrinsic value assets in business as common denominator to play on that world stage, but hold tight to the prevailing salt-of-the-earth feel of the state from it's people rooted in this land, they just might begin to truly embrace their own worth solidly instead of relying upon state sponsored tourist brochures. Trev if you can articulate it better, I wish you'd share because my words seem too paltry and just don't seem to offer a view anyone can see clearly. Go ahead and write the novel! LOL
[quote=harborlady;4891900]I'm a new resident to WV, and have a high opinion of WV'rs friendliness, generosity, and sensibilities. Wondering if you, r601, and buzz have noticed how all too often the natives here seem to have such low opinions of themselves as if low self esteem were sanctioned by the state as a culture unto itself. Is it just my opinion?
Hello harborlady,
I agree with you 100% about the friendliness and generosity of WV folk..I'm sure they have their quota of nutters and misfits the same as any other place you care to mention. But my experience so far has been a breath of fresh air to me. But then again, as a visitor, I would expect that. If I lived there, I would no doubt learn what topics make them smile, and what makes them angry.
I must admit that when having conversations with my WV friends, they DO describe the state as 'being the last state to be updated and informed about national issues' compared to the rest of USA. So I can see your point of view if you hear expressions like that daily. Maybe they are correct? In which case, over the years, this would surely seep into the 'norm' of local life. If you tell someone repeatedly that they are unworthy, then eventually that is what they will come to believe. However, I do not see WV folk heading mass exodus throwing themselves off bridges, and I would expect them to be insulted if we even dare suggest that they have 'given up' and buried their heads in the sand. During these chats over some tasty pepperoni rolls and a chilled 'red-eye', I always highlighted what I liked about WV...only simple things,but positive in MY eyes. I could compare life in London to that in Fairmont,Morgantown,Clarksburg etc and give you a list as long as the River Thames, but it boils down to either accepting your 'lot' in life, or not. So don't get angry with yourself about what YOU think they should feel about themselves. I don't..! Like I said before, I would happily live there,knowing what little I do,because I would embrace the change. Maybe it's an age thing..LOL...I don't know.
As for bulldozing Buckingham Palace and replacing it with a new regal possession to show off to the world...that would be madness of course..hehe...but remember,it was the good ol' Empire that adorned this city with countless statues and beautiful buildings etc. and mainly for the exact same reason...to pat ourselves on the back and show off to the world have 'great' we were. Great Britain? In certain ways yes, as much as any other nation that had power and influence. I'm not being unpatriotic - this is my home - and my roots are firmly embedded, but times change,people change, and if WV folk want to change,they will. Personally,I love their way of life,but that's just me..
I'm a new resident to WV, and have a high opinion of WV'rs friendliness, generosity, and sensibilities. Wondering if you, r601, and buzz have noticed how all too often the natives here seem to have such low opinions of themselves as if low self esteem were sanctioned by the state as a culture unto itself. Is it just my opinion? Have you seen it too? I'm not talking about healthy humility, I'm talking about self deprecation to the point where they make themselves less able to help themselves and all but forgo the benefits of being part of the USA.
Sometimes I can laugh about it, but I admit sometimes it just makes me angry that they hurt themselves this way under the guise of social graces. Particularly in business demeanor, where they get so mired in complex social niceties they forget what their actual job was! Not the image they think they're projecting with 'open for business' motto, they're coming across as mimics of movers and shakers with no qualifications or training. This is fodder for an SNL parody they're unwittingly doing to themselves.
I read comments from atlantagreg and DK and think to myself what a mistake it is for WV to try to claim to be a world class player, or to try to pass themselves off as a miniature version of what some other city's claim to fame is. There's a uniform that goes along with that paradigm that's antithetical to the real WV & it's citizens sensibilities. Are you sure you want to go this route is all I can think. Far more scathing critiques regarding business demeanor will follow if they answer yes, and what they will lose of themselves as a result might be too high a price to pay to be that mentally entrenched in capitalist philosophies.
Why is it WV'rs cannot see that every time they negotiate with postures of weakness like this, they will lose economically? Instead of being on the bus with a spiffy new economic engine, they'll get themselves under the wheels of the same bus!
Buzz touched on a point- the argument he's had with himself for over 20 yrs. There's a persistent inability for people to articulate just what it is about WV that makes it so special. When they can focus upon intrinsic value assets in business as common denominator to play on that world stage, but hold tight to the prevailing salt-of-the-earth feel of the state from it's people rooted in this land, they just might begin to truly embrace their own worth solidly instead of relying upon state sponsored tourist brochures. Trev if you can articulate it better, I wish you'd share because my words seem too paltry and just don't seem to offer a view anyone can see clearly. Go ahead and write the novel! LOL
Actually, I have written a short novel set in West Virginia. I agree with what you say, and only point out that as articulate as your post is, it still doesn't quite hit that elusive target...the West Virginia psyche. I don't know if anyone ever will get it completely written down, and if they did, I wonder if West Virginia would then disappear. I might add that not all of us were in agreement when JFK called us Appalachia and said we were in a depressed area. Some of us said depression is a state of mind and, hey, I'm happy even if I'm broke. But at least 200 years of put downs like that by ignorant a-holes, especially those in politics, business, and the press, can have an effect on people, and maybe they start to believe it. I am going to post an excerpt from my book that is about the boys in the story nervously venturing into a sort of no man's land at a strip mine where they might run into kids from another neighborhood. It might cover some of your questions.
West Virginia is West Virginia. There is no other state like it, and no other people like West Virginia people. Though to call it, or them, “unique“, in the strictest sense of the word, may not be grammatically correct, it is tempting to do so. Neither does the word, ‘unusual‘, really fill the bill. But still, there are no other Americans like them.
Furthermore, there may not be another state in the union that inspires the kind of pride from its inhabitants that West Virginia does. Texans are bold, and brash, and they brag a lot about Texas, but to a true West Virginia mountaineer, bragging is just rude. Similarly, Coloradoans seem to feel that their state has more beauty, and everything else that is better, than any other state in the country. But they express it in a way that mountaineers think of as snooty, rather than in the kind of down to earth pride of a West Virginian. It’s a pride that West Virginians are born with, and no matter where they might end up, they carry it to the end of their days. At times, they might speak all kinds of negative thoughts about their home state, but ‘by gaw’ nobody else had better.
Volumes have been written to try and explain the West Virginia psyche, and few have ever hit the nail on the head; but certainly a lot of how the people are, and have always been, has to do with the terrain itself. To say the least, it has made both travel and social interaction truly difficult. In reality, although this may be oxymoronic, it is a congested rural area. Everyone is separated from everyone else by natural obstacles, if not distance, because it is a relatively small state in area. It, therefore, is not too difficult to make the leap to the idea of that particular condition being the cause of a territoriality that exists throughout the state. It pervades everything and everybody. It’s a “This is my hollow, (or town, neighborhood, street, state), and strangers can‘t be trusted,” attitude. In their defense, strangers have always meant that the land was about to be raped, both above and below the ground, and the locals were about to be cheated out of what was rightfully theirs.
Truthfully, there are no friendlier, more helpful, people on earth than those found in the Mountain state, but they are territorial; at least until you get to know them, or better yet, until they get to know you; and then, what’s theirs is yours.
Well, maybe the black population left due to racism. Personally, I would never want to show off a black person as a novelty. That is ridiculous that implies that your racist.
Well, maybe the black population left due to racism. Personally, I would never want to show off a black person as a novelty. That is ridiculous that implies that your racist.
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
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I,ve pictured parts of W.V. simular to where Patrick Swazey's family live in the movie "Next of Kin". That's not meant as a insult. It's like our families in Michigan. I was raised on a Dairy Farm, but we weren't not only farmers, we were also lumber jacks and spent our spare time out in the woods.
I have noticed a class seperation in West Virginia, which in some areas, has the severity of Jamaica, a country economically imploding (imploded). Likewise, housing in West Virginia visibly in need of condemning has occupants within view of multi-millionaires. Don't worry, I'm not promoting socialism. But wealth consolidation is occuring all over the country with the evaporation of the middle class (rename working class to working poor), but in West Virginia, it's noticeable. So this condition might actually exist everywhere, but perhaps the West Virginian (Virginee?) isn't delusional about it like the rest of the country who has been blinded by cookie cutter housing and malls, where the only restaurants are multi-national franchises, etc.
A quick glance at 119 South in Charleston, however, would argue my assessment, as that place, looks like any other place, everyplace, and people are standing in line for it. The Howdee Doodee Channel. It's not my place to judge, but I have concerns, because stupidity is contagious, and I don't know how much of the population they in turn will infect.
Even at the mayor level in this country, elections are promoted on the basis of who has the most money. Normal? Depends on which country you live in. The same ilk rules over this country now that it fought independence from . . aristocrat power, and a direct decendent of the crown of England occupies the White House. These backward steps we've taken in this country in such a short time span, yeah . . people's heads are reeling. If you're seeing that depreciation in the eyes of West Virginia, it's on the calendar for the rest of this country.
At some level, regardless of whether we consciously recognize it or not, we know when things are different. Something has happened or is happening in this country. The world is changing into Wal-Mart, and that trauma still in the eyes of Indians on reservations might be akin to what you're seeing in self-depreciation. I am alive, but beyond that, is it life? Some choose delusion instead of answering the ghastly question -- is this all I will ever be?
There is an economic collapse on the horizon, and places like West Virginia will feel it first, so maybe that's some of what you're seeing too . . people listening to the quiet before the storm. It's going to hurt. However, I am confident, unlike many areas in this country, West Virginia will survive, because it can.
There is another possibility too, as someone pointed out elsewhere, the country is willing to expense West Virginia as easily as it did the Indian, in its consumption, in which case, I just came to see West Virginia before it was gone.
"There is an economic collapse on the horizon, and places like West Virginia will feel it first, so maybe that's some of what you're seeing too . . people listening to the quiet before the storm. It's going to hurt. "
I disagree that places like WV will feel it first. I think the "inflated" living high on the hog places would be the first to feel it.
I think the whole housing market collapse and price of homes has been a good indication of this. WV hasn't been nearly affected like living-large states.
We're like The Little Engine That Could. Bigger and fancier engines may laugh at us and make snide remarks. But we just keep chug chug chugging away and get the job done.
When the collapse happens we may not feel it first...the big metropolitian areas will.
We will survive it better than most because we can plant..live off the forest for a few months...live off stored food put away for the calamity...and get back to the basics of survival knowledge that has been forgotton...
we can also 'fort up and protect certain areas...example: A school principal friend was visiting relatives in the EP when 9/11 hit...roads were blocked by fallen trees... the local citizens militia stopped him and family at the check point and told them to go back to the relatives...'that the nation was at war and no one was coming in and no one was going out...
after two days the road was cleared and he returned to Mon. county...He said, "When they told me the nation was at war and had been attacked...I believed them."
Some are ready for the collapse..wish more were...
I lived in MD for the last 9 years and recently moved to southern PA. My understanding is that health care is a large problem. I worked at a specialist doctor's office outside of DC and we had tons of people coming from WV to see us and other doctors. Lots of older patients making that long drive.
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I'll be happy to give my views on topics if you want...always willing to chat with mountaineers..!! Seems you have very similar problems to us back here too...from the serious to the downright stupid...!![/b]
blacks being shown off as novelty item
Well, maybe the black population left due to racism. Personally, I would never want to show off a black person as a novelty. That is ridiculous that implies that your racist.
