CANZUK Free Economic Space proposal...what do you think??

[saturno_v]

Originally Posted by deneb78

I guess it depends on what you like. For me DC vs. Van would be a toss up because I don't like the summers in DC that much. I have been twice before in June. I much prefer LA type summers.

I definitely prefer a more "Mediterranean" type of environment and weather myself so I totally agree about Southern California (never LA though, San Diego is such a better city).

But if I have to choose between Vancouver and Washington DC, climate wise, I would take DC because it has quite a lot of extra items in the "Pro" column.
A peak average summer temperature of 31 degrees beats 23 and a nicer springtime.....much more sunshine beats less sunshine, less daily precipitation beats more daily precipitation and the already mentioned less variance of daylight between seasons is another big advantage in my book.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by deneb78

The vegetation may be similar but the climates are quite different. There are deciduous trees all the way down to Florida with more and more broadleaf evergreens as you go further south. NYC and DC have most of their winter above freezing with periodic intrusions of cold air and snow vs the opposite for Ottawa/Montreal. This gives a very different feeling for the climate.

As I said before, I don't think it's the exact same climate (or even close to that), but to me it's a variant on our climate. For the record the Bos-NY-Wash corridors feels more familiar to me in this respect than Vancouver and Victoria.


This does not mean that it's identical, but that it's a place that gets weather similar to ours during the winter. Not all the time, not with the same intensity. But still similar.


I've been in DC when there was snow on the ground for a week and temperatures below zero. There was ice in the Potomac and ponds were frozen. It was like being at home in December both in feel and visually.


I know it's not like that all winter but OTOH the other winter weather they get isn't typically like Atlanta or New Orleans either. It's more like our November weather - which again is quite familiar to me. Just at a different time of year - though very occasionally you might get days in winter that are +6C with no snow on the ground in southern Ontario and southern Quebec.


My point is simply that those winter conditions (typical of "home" for me) even if sporadic in DC aren't so run of the mill in, say, Charlotte, NC.

[deneb78]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As I said before, I don't think it's the exact same climate (or even close to that), but to me it's a variant on our climate. For the record the Bos-NY-Wash corridors feels more familiar to me in this respect than Vancouver and Victoria.


This does not mean that it's identical, but that it's a place that gets weather similar to ours during the winter. Not all the time, not with the same intensity. But still similar.


I've been in DC when there was snow on the ground for a week and temperatures below zero. There was ice in the Potomac and ponds were frozen. It was like being at home in December both in feel and visually.


I know it's not like that all winter but OTOH the other winter weather they get isn't typically like Atlanta or New Orleans either. It's more like our November weather - which again is quite familiar to me. Just at a different time of year - though very occasionally you might get days in winter that are +6C with no snow on the ground in southern Ontario and southern Quebec.


My point is simply that those winter conditions (typical of "home" for me) even if sporadic in DC aren't so run of the mill in, say, Charlotte, NC.

How can it be a variant on the Ottawa/Montreal climate when they aren't even in the same climate category? Washington DC is a humid subtropical climate and NYC is on the border of it. Ottawa and Montreal are firmly humid continental climates. Just because there is snow on the ground for a couple of weeks in the winter and has some bare trees doesn't mean anothing. Vancouver and Victoria also get snow from time to time and have some bare trees too but are quite different. You yourself admit that.

[manitopiaaa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Upstate NY has something like 9-10 million people depending on how you define it. I wouldn't describe that as "low population". If it were its own state it would rank somewhere around 10th place in terms of population.


I agree though that Toronto/Montreal are not like New York/Philadelphia in terms of climate. A better comparison for the two largest Canadian cities would be Chicago-Milwaukee-Minneapolis.

The only way you get 10 million is if you're counting Long Island, Westchester and the Lower Hudson Valley as upstate. Those are New York suburbs, not Upstate.

Upstate New York has about 6 million people (and declining rapidly):



Why would anyone want to deal with the weather + low job prospects?

[manitopiaaa]

Originally Posted by saturno_v

I did look at the averages on weatherspark.com for Washington DC and Vancouver BC. I would argue that DC has a significant better weather, on average, than Vancouver....much warmer summers and the temperature rises earlier (temperatures start already to diverge in March). Winters in DC are much sunnier with significant less daily chances of precipitation.
The negative aspect is that DC has a touch lower temperatures (again, averages) at the peak in winter and a bit higher chances of snowfall. I would take that tradeoff anytime. I never lived in in DC but, again, based on the weather info I read, I would take DC climate anytime over the Northwest. NYC is similar to DC and preferable as well, IMHO, to the Northwest by a long shot, climate wise.

Finally, DC and NYC are located significantly south of Vancouver (NYC is at the 40th parallel, DC at 38th) which reduces the variation in duration of daylight between summer and winter, another negative for me. I hate the long dark winters and the short nights in summer.

Exactly. DC does have very muggy summers though, being built on a swamp, and in July the entire metro is full of sweaty bureaucrats. But I would gladly trade that for getting two extra months of decent weather.

Here are the average highs between Washington DC and Toronto/Montreal/Ottawa in March/April and October/November:

Spring:

March:
Washington: 56℉
Toronto: 41℉ (-15 below DC)
Calgary: 40℉ (-16 below DC)
Ottawa: 37℉ (-19 below DC)
Montreal: 36℉ (-20 below DC)
Edmonton: 36℉ (-20 below DC)
Quebec City: 32℉ (-22 below DC)

April:
Washington: 67℉
Toronto: 53℉ (-14 below DC)
Ottawa: 53℉ (-14 below DC)
Calgary: 52℉ (-15 below DC)
Montreal: 52℉ (-15 below DC)
Edmonton: 52℉ (-15 below DC)
Quebec City: 47℉ (-20 below DC)

Fall:

October:
Washington: 68℉
Toronto: 57℉ (-11 below DC)
Ottawa: 55℉ (-13 below DC)
Montreal: 54℉ (-14 below DC)
Calgary: 53℉ (-15 below DC)
Quebec City: 52℉ (-16 below DC)
Edmonton: 51℉ (-17 below DC)

November:
Washington: 58℉
Toronto: 46℉ (-12 below DC)
Ottawa: 42℉ (-16 below DC)
Montreal: 41℉ (-17 below DC)
Calgary: 38℉ (-20 below DC)
Quebec City: 37℉ (-21 below DC)
Edmonton: 32℉ (-26(!) below DC)

How can anybody argue that the Mid-Atlantic has the same climate as Canada? DC effectively has two more months of decent weather (March and November) than the Toronto-Montreal corridor and has nearly 4 months of more bearable weather than Edmonton and other Prairie cities.

Just because the Northern U.S. isn't the "Sunbelt" doesn't mean it has anywhere close to Canadian weather!

[manitopiaaa]

Originally Posted by deneb78

How can it be a variant on the Ottawa/Montreal climate when they aren't even in the same climate category? Washington DC is a humid subtropical climate and NYC is on the border of it. Ottawa and Montreal are firmly humid continental climates. Just because there is snow on the ground for a couple of weeks in the winter and has some bare trees doesn't mean anothing. Vancouver and Victoria also get snow from time to time and have some bare trees too but are quite different. You yourself admit that.

There's snow on the ground right now in Florida. By that token, does Acajack think Florida and Toronto have similar climates too? Just because DC gets snow, suddenly it has the same weather as Toronto?

I'm not understanding his argument.

[Acajack]

Snow in Florida is a *freak* thing. It's not a freak thing in DC and NYC, even if it's less common than in Buffalo or Ottawa. That's all I am saying.