World's Most Diverse and Racially/Ethnically Integrated Cities (ferry, station)

[Lad EU]

Hi

Originally Posted by hadrett32

Yeah okay, I've only been to the Western areas of Berlin and "diverse" Eastern localities like Prenzlauer Berg, Pankow etc.

Neither Prenzlauer Berg nor Pankow are diverse, not even for German standards. Even the primary schools in Prenzlauer Berg - which are in West Berlin in some parts almost completely set up of kids with German/Turkish roots - are too a high degree made up of wealthy and upper class German kids.


However, the largest ethnic groups in Berlin aren't exactly the same as in Munich, for instance, Berlin's largest non-German ethnic groups by number of origin (including naturalised "foreigners" or those who have the German citizenship) are Turks/Kurds, Arabs, Russians, Poles, Vietnamese and several others.

Berlin= Turkey, Poland, Serbia, Italy, Russia
Munich= Turkey, Croatia, Austria, Italy, Greece (source: Wiki)

Not a real difference.

Originally Posted by hadrett32

Additionally, the Black population is quite high (particularly in the Western part) for German conditions.

There is not a single African group which has more than 5,000 individuals in Berlin. Compared to Hamburg, where there are more than 5,000 Ghanaians. All Africans in Berlin together are at an estimated 17,000 - of 3,5 millions. Black Germans should make up maybe some few thousands as well. I don't think its much.

Originally Posted by hadrett32

Especially Wedding (district in West-Berlin) has an estimated African population of almost 10%.

In some neighbourhoods maybe. Couldn't find any evidence nor counterevidence, though I have always been interested in Wedding.

Originally Posted by hadrett32

All in all, i guess that immigrants in Berlin (and Hamburg ,too.) are more concentrated in specific areas than in Munich or Stuttgart.

I agree. In their overall makeup, both Southern cities however more diverse.

Originally Posted by hadrett32

However, Berlin and Hamburg have a multicultural vibe with many different multicultural festivals (Carnival of Cultures) and multiethnic shops/restaurants, whereas Munich (or Stuttgart) are hugely "German" or "Caucasian" in 'their' face. Sometimes statistics vary a LOT from reality

No offense, but this is your perception of reality.

[hadrett32]

Berlin= Turkey, Poland, Serbia, Italy, Russia
Munich= Turkey, Croatia, Austria, Italy, Greece (source: Wiki)

these are the numbers of foreign citizens, not the number of someones country of origin. here's the wiki side of the Berlin population statistics, including a table regarding the country of origin.
Berlin population statistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, as i've mentioned before, the Southern cities may have a higher percentage of foreigners, however, Berlin has the largest variety of "non-white" people. Here is another interesting, more appropriate statistic regarding people with a migration background in Berlin, however, it is in German. (I can speak/understand it a bit )
http://www.statistik-berlin-brandenb...hj02-10_BE.pdf

[Lad EU]

It is hard to measure no doubt - depends on ones definition of "diversity". Munich certainly's got some groups less (http://www.mstatistik-muenchen.de/themen/bevoelkerung/jahreszahlen/jahreszahlen_2009/p_jt100112.pdf - broken link) than in Berlin, but these are mostly nationalities which Berlin's got very few individuals of, you'd hardly realise they are there because the communities are tiny. Munich however has (in proportion) the same percentage of Turkish population, a even bigger proportion of Africans (10.000 African passport holders compared to 17.000 in B) and even outnumbers Berlin in some nationalities, eg. its got 5 times more Irakis. I don't know what you mean by "non-white", I would neither call Turks nor Arabs non-whites.

Thanks for the link, but the estimates on the page are partly completely way off. 1,700 Ghanaian passport holders, but an estimated 20.000 Ghanaians with German passports in Berlin? It is in Germany especially for economic refugees hard if not even impossible to get a residence permit, even harder is it to get the passport. I would estimate that there are not 20.000 Ghanaians with German passports in the whole of Germany. If you have a certain percentage of people with a foreign passport in a German city, you can roughly assume a bit less than same number being cititzens with that migrant background holding the German passport. Thus, the number of Turks in Berlin is around 125 000, the number of people with Turkish background/origin must be around 200.000. This however goes only for longstanding communities - Turks have been in Germany for more than 40 years. I would rather suggest the number with Ghanain origin/background closer to 2.000 than to 20.000.

[hadrett32]

hey Lad EU,


a good approach to this issue would be to compare the city's largest shopping street/boulevard and the people who stroll around it. So far as i recall, the crowds on the Kurfurstendamm (Berlin' largest shopping street) were made up of many different ethnic backgrounds/races as opposed to Munich's largest shopping areas (the pedestrian areas in the city center). Maybe, the size of the city is an important factor in this regard.

[Lad EU]

Hi

then you are completely left to what you would like or expect to see. If you are going through a city and you are of the irrefutable opinion this is the most diverse city in the western world, a Chinese restaurant at the corner suffices as evidence.

Most Germans think like you - but they mostly think that Berlin MUST be more multicultural than Munich because it is poorer, and diversity and multiculturalism in their minds are invariably connected to poverty, decay and crime. This thinking has lead to a dangerous revitalisation of xenophobia in Germany during the last few years.

[Neuling]

Within Germany, Frankfurt and Stuttgart seem more colorful than Berlin and Munich. Mannheim is also quite diverse for such a small city. I have heard Hamburg is also a magnet for foreigners, but I have never been there, so I can't confirm.

[smoknGanja]

Yo.
Great truth in what you say man.
It comes under the debate.
of Europe vs USA.
Europe is WAY more culturally divers, but USA is more racially diverse.
However if you look at the facts and statistics there are LAtinos in London.
Actually the most Brazilians in all europe are in London (more than Portugal)
and after SPain the most colombians nad equadorians in europe.
THere are slasa clubs in every neighbourhood every day of the week.
There is a big established colombian community of second / third generation in London, THe largest in Europe.

[fabianb4]

I say the most diverse should be by percentage to population. London is very diverse but its still mostly white and has a large population. The winner should be Toronto which has the largest diversity compared to population. If London and Toronto had the same size population there would be well under 65,70% or whatever white people in London

[hadrett32]

So, "White people" are just a homogenous bulk? For instance, there is a huge difference between a Russian and a Portuguese. Especially London seems to have a very diverse European or White population with native Brits, Irish, Poles, Germans, French, Americans, Aussies, South Africans, Lithuanians, Russians, Greeks, Jews etc. Thats quite diverse in my eyes.

[Don_Caballero]

European large cities are more diverse than North American ones, why? Because north american whites are more "homogeneous" (centuries of mixing ) than european whites as a whole. So are Aframs compared to blacks in europe who are first or second generation immigrants for the most part.