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I think that we have a miscommunication. Russian children aren't rejecting Russian adoptive parents. The prospective Russian adoptive parents are passing on the children for various reasons. The Russian children do sit on a national registry with priority given to Russians. When a certain timeframe has passed, they are then available for adoption to foreigners. Russian families did look at my daughter and.....declined. If Russis is serious about this issue, then reform should happen within Russia. Are there road blocks for Russian parents to adopt? Is it expensive? Are there excessive beaucratic obstacles? I don't know the answer to these questions and maybe with adoption on the minds of your countrymen and women, Russia can start addressing a problem from within. Here is my question back to you. As a Russian, if you wanted to adopt, can you tell us about your system? Is it hard? Easy? Impossible?
Secondly, Americans do adopt sick children. All the time. Unfortunately most of the children in the orphanages are not healthy. They suffer from a number of ailments---mental, physical, etc. Both of my children have medical or emotional difficulties. My son has had several surguries---one occuring just two weeks after his arrival here in the United States. Due to lack of funding to your orphanages, the children are also pretty malnourished. I've had the pleasure of knowing other adoptive families who have adopted children with much more severe problems and get them the services or treatment they so desperately need.
Why do Americans adopt from overseas? That is a deeply personal question my friend and I think there is a thread floating around this forum that gives you some insights on why people pursue an international adoption.
Instead of getting so angry at all Americans that adopt, please also remember there are thousands of children that are in good homes. It is tragic when deaths occur, whether they are adopted or biological children. Also remember that the court system isn't fool proof either and some parents don't get what they deserve if something does happen to the children. I'm sure that is also true in Russia too.
My friend! I'm not angry with the Americans, only those who do bad, of course it does not mean that Americans are bad parents! I believe and know that America has enough good and charitable people. It is not in the parent repeat. The case in the legislation. The U.S. government does not allow to monitor the status of adopted children. Second, many are outraged sentences for those parents who broke the law and simple human norm. you are wrong if you think that things in the Russian government.(I'm on this topic) Please tell me why you are not adopted American children?Sorry for the bad english!I have no doubt. you're a good person. But I hope that every child in Russia may find Russian parents and live in Russia. The president said the revision of the laws on adoption and better support these children in Russia financially and physically and psychologically. I would say that it is our national problem that we must solve themselves. Since we have a small population of the country.
In Russia very well the laws in relation to the common people, but not to the officials. As for funding it depends on the leadership of the children's home as a children's home must spend per child from 1000 to $ 10,000 in month one child, for this reason, there are programs to support families who have adopted children. Thereby reducing the costs of the children's homes. Money is given directly to the foster parents every month in strict accountability for expenditure, and these children have number of benefits that not have children who have native parents.
Last edited by GreyKarast; 12-27-2012 at 08:31 AM..
My friend! I'm not angry with the Americans, only those who do bad, of course it does not mean that Americans are bad parents! I believe and know that America has enough good and charitable people. It is not in the parent repeat. The case in the legislation. Second, many are outraged sentences for those parents who broke the law and simple human norm. you are wrong if you think that things in the Russian government. Please tell me why you are not adopted American children?Sorry for the bad english!I have no doubt. you're a good person. But I hope that every child in Russia may find Russian parents and live in Russia. The president said the revision of the laws on adoption and better support these children in Russia financially and physically and psychologically. I would say that it is our national problem that we must solve themselves. Since we have a small population of the country.
In Russia very well the laws in relation to the common people, but not to the officials. As for funding it depends on the leadership of the children's home as a children's home must spend per child from 1000 to $ 10,000 in month one child, for this reason, there are programs to support families who have adopted children. Thereby reducing the costs of the children's homes. Money is given directly to the foster parents every month in strict accountability for expenditure, and these children have number of benefits that not have children who have native parents.
A couple of points and thank you for the response. Maybe we can get some good discussions going. Going to take a few of your points and discuss.
-The U.S. government does not allow to monitor the status of adopted children. In the case of our adoption, we were required by agreement with the adoption agency to submit homestudy reports back to Russia for 3 years. I thought that this was a fair requirement and allowed Russia to see the status of the children.
-Second, many are outraged sentences for those parents who broke the law and simple human norm.. Any parent that harms or neglects their children, either adopted or biological should be prosecuted. I also don't agree with some of the decisions courts have made. Sometimes we think sentences are too light, sometimes too severe. Many times, Americans can be outraged too. The Casey Anthony trial was one of those cases where I felt outraged at the outcome.
-Please tell me why you are not adopted American children? Personal decision. We weren't necessarily interested in a baby so never did pursure a domestic adoption of a baby. We did look at foster care but some personal experiences scared us off. International adoption seemed to be the best fit for us and we were very open to ages, race, region. We looked at China, Korea and some other countries. We finally decided on Russia and I'm glad we did. Again, it is a personal decision and every family has to pursue what is right for them.
-But I hope that every child in Russia may find Russian parents and live in Russia. The president said the revision of the laws on adoption and better support these children in Russia financially and physically and psychologically. I would say that it is our national problem that we must solve themselves. I hope that you are right and that children find permanant homes with an adoptive family. If every child could be removed from an orphanage and placed in a loving foster home/adoptive home, that would be fantastic. The orphanages were quite underfunded and dismal so if this problem could be resolved, that would be great. Of course, children going into fostercare environments would need to be carefully monitored to make sure they weren't just a free meal ticket for the foster parents. Of course this could be said with the American system too however the degree of economic hardship experienced by the Russian people would make this system ripe of abuse. If the checks and balances are in place though, it would be wonderful to get these children into loving homes. I wish you and your country luck in figuring out this problem. Hopefully all those Russian protesters pictured at the rally are doing their part and inquiring into adoption as we speak!!!
Now for you to answer my question. How hard is it for a Russian citizen to adopt a Russian child? What process do you need to go through? I would be interested in hearing your perspective.
My friend! I'm not angry with the Americans, only those who do bad, of course it does not mean that Americans are bad parents! I believe and know that America has enough good and charitable people. It is not in the parent repeat. The case in the legislation. The U.S. government does not allow to monitor the status of adopted children. Second, many are outraged sentences for those parents who broke the law and simple human norm. you are wrong if you think that things in the Russian government.(I'm on this topic) Please tell me why you are not adopted American children?Sorry for the bad english!I have no doubt. you're a good person. But I hope that every child in Russia may find Russian parents and live in Russia. The president said the revision of the laws on adoption and better support these children in Russia financially and physically and psychologically. I would say that it is our national problem that we must solve themselves. Since we have a small population of the country.
In Russia very well the laws in relation to the common people, but not to the officials. As for funding it depends on the leadership of the children's home as a children's home must spend per child from 1000 to $ 10,000 in month one child, for this reason, there are programs to support families who have adopted children. Thereby reducing the costs of the children's homes. Money is given directly to the foster parents every month in strict accountability for expenditure, and these children have number of benefits that not have children who have native parents.
Grey Karast, to address some of your questions...
The reason why Americans are not adopting in their own country ( that is if we are talking about children in foster care) is quite simple; because parents rights in America are protected as part of human rights. And that means that if children are in foster care, they might have a parent which didn't give up the parental rights, and it might be a mother who is recovering from drug addiction and it might be a father who'll show up out of the blue, after being incarcerated, and guess what - in this case the court will order adoptive parents to return child to his biological parent. Or in case of private adoptions, when adoptive parents pay for medical expenses of the future mother ( labor and all) she still has time to change her mind and claim her baby back within three months or so. ( Correct me if I'm wrong on the given time frame.) In this case again child will be taken away from adoptive parents and returned to biological mother.
In Russia where the approach to the value of human life ( and understanding of what human rights are, parents rights including,) has been historically quite different. ( Russia overall is a brutal place to live in when it's coming to these values.) So in Russia when people are poor, they have no rights, no choices, so when children are taken away from them by the state ( and they can be taken away just for not paying the electricity bills - I've read about such cases,) they are in a different situation comparably to American parents. And when Russian parents dump their children en mass into orphanages, they simply often can't afford to raise them, and the government doesn't do anything to help them, unlike in the US.
That's why the number of children in the orphanages is the same every year - it's a steady process that indicates how sick the society is, and it's Putin's dirty laundry that now is for everyone to see.
( After all think about it - what's that that Soviet Union was doing, that children were not dumped in orphanages as it's happening today. Even Stalin! Yes - even Stalin when he outlawed the abortions soon after the war.)
So Putin's Russia in this respect is something else.
And it doesn't make much sense to talk about "how much Russian state spends on every orphan," because orphans get only 1/20 of these money. The rest in the most cases is stolen by corrupt officials.
Don't believe me? Then look at this picture - this is just the recent case, when 27 children died simply from hunger in the orphanage for handicapped.
And before you'll get angry at Americans who "don't adequately persecute" the abusers and killers of Russian adopted children, keep on reading what "punishment" the director of this orphanage in Russia has received for 27 deaths, even when it has been learned about the misappropriation of state funds.
And while we are at that, discussing the number of 19 children killed by Americans ( out of 60,000 adopted in total, ) the number of children adopted in Russia from 1992 to 2006 who "died" is 1220. At that we only know for sure that 12 of them were killed by their adoptive parents, what happened to the rest of them - why they died, we simply don't know - there is no such statistic, apparently. Should tell you right there how much Russia "cares about her children." It sounds all good how "Russia wants to protect her children from foreign adoptions" - serves the national pride you know, but only until you look at the hard cold facts.
I'll leave you to read yet one more article written by Russian journalist - she and her husband know very well what Russian orphanages are all about. This couple adopted a boy from the orphanage as well - they've chosen specifically non-Slavic looking child, because such child would have chance second to none to be adopted by Russians ( but Americans adopt these children too by the way - do you think these children are not human beings as well?) So this woman describes her experience of adoption process itself which is when you read about it, everything they went through and saw in the system, is quite scandalous as well.
That's why her husband, who is a journalist of the same newspaper knew very well what he was asking Putin about during the last press-conference. This journalist had first-hand experience, but I guess you don't read these articles, you don't get this kind of information, all you seems to be listening is only Putin's propaganda which is on every corner. By the way, talking about the loopholes in overseeing the well-being of Russian children in America - they have been dutifully reviewed by Americans and the new treaty has been signed just in November, to assure the security of Russian children. Did you know about it? Did Putin's propaganda announce about it on every corner? Didn't think so.
So quit watching zomboyashik and start looking at the hard cold facts. Of course it's abnormal to give away children from the country that's on the verge of demographic collapse, but unless Russians can face what kind of society they live in, and what conditions Russia's orphans live in and why, preventing them from foreign adoptions is a crime. So I'm glad that Putins' dirty laundry is for everyone to see now, as much as he is trying to pretend that he is a leader of some first world country. Now everyone can judge for themselves what this is all about.
We wanted to take? But in real life they are adopted only healthy children, patients often adopt the name of Russian parents.
RUSSIANS tend to only adopt the healthy kids. My family, and many, many other families are adopting children with special needs that people in your country (and other countries) do not want.
Grey Karast, to address some of your questions...
The reason why Americans are not adopting in their own country ( that is if we are talking about children in foster care) is quite simple; because parents rights in America are protected as part of human rights. And that means that if children are in foster care, they might have a parent which didn't give up the parental rights, and it might be a mother who are recovering from drug addiction and it might be a father who'll show up out of the blue, after being incarcerated, and guess what - in this case the court will order adoptive parents to return child to his biological parent. Or in case of private adoptions, when adoptive parents pay for medical expenses of the future mother ( labor and all) she still has time to change her mind and claim her baby back within three months or so. ( Correct me if I'm wrong on the given time frame.) In this case again child will be taken away from adoptive parents and returned to biological mother.
There are over 100,000 children in US Foster care who are legally free for adoption (i.e. both parents rights have been terminated by the courts and the appeal period has expired). Thousands of families adopt legally free for adoption children from foster care each and every year. Foster to adopt is a totally different scenario. Those families choose to foster NOT legally free children who are in foster care whose parents MAY be headed to termination of parental rights - which does not always happen. Completely different. Neither is a simple process or quick - neither is adopting from Russia simple or quick.
As to your domestic infant adoption statement - it is not correct either. Each state determines what the timelines are for revocation of consent (from 0 to 30 days is the least and most I believe) and when consent can be given after birth by the mother - and whether the father can consent prior to birth or after birth. Contested cases happen because "someone" tried to do a end-run around ethics and the law. Your three month concept is also different by state and ONLY applies in cases of fraud or coercion - both of which are hard to prove and again, happen in cases where "someone" did an end-run around ethics and laws of the state.
There are over 100,000 children in US Foster care who are legally free for adoption (i.e. both parents rights have been terminated by the courts and the appeal period has expired). Thousands of families adopt legally free for adoption children from foster care each and every year. Foster to adopt is a totally different scenario. Those families choose to foster NOT legally free children who are in foster care whose parents MAY be headed to termination of parental rights - which does not always happen. Completely different. Neither is a simple process or quick - neither is adopting from Russia simple or quick.
As to your domestic infant adoption statement - it is not correct either. Each state determines what the timelines are for revocation of consent (from 0 to 30 days is the least and most I believe) and when consent can be given after birth by the mother - and whether the father can consent prior to birth or after birth. Contested cases happen because "someone" tried to do a end-run around ethics and the law. Your three month concept is also different by state and ONLY applies in cases of fraud or coercion - both of which are hard to prove and again, happen in cases where "someone" did an end-run around ethics and laws of the state.
Very well, I'll leave it up to you to explain then why so many Americans opt for adoption in Russia.
I've mentioned the reasons that Americans stated the most often recently, but if so many children are available for adoption in the US, so why go to another country?
Very well, I'll leave it up to you to explain then why so many Americans opt for adoption in Russia.
I've mentioned the reasons that Americans stated the most often recently, but if so many children are available for adoption in the US, so why go to another country?
There are numerous reasons why, and there is a thread about all those reasons.
Very well, I'll leave it up to you to explain then why so many Americans opt for adoption in Russia.
I've mentioned the reasons that Americans stated the most often recently, but if so many children are available for adoption in the US, so why go to another country?
Your guess is as good as mine - although I would suggest that race, and the fact that birth families don't live in the same country may be a factor for some.
Here are the current statistics and note the "waiting" category are children legally free for adoption.
Your guess is as good as mine - although I would suggest that race, and the fact that birth families don't live in the same country may be a factor for some.
Here are the current statistics and note the "waiting" category are children legally free for adoption.
From 2002 - 2011 each year over 50,000 children have been adopted from US foster care (far more than Russia).
From 2002 - 2011 the highest number of children "waiting" to be adopted from US foster care was 135,000 and the lowest which was 2011 was 104,000.
That's nice, but we don't have any children that are legally free in my state. Parental rights are not terminated until right before the adoption is final.
It was impossible to adopt a Russian "orphan" (usually they were not in fact orphans) without making a "compulsory donation". There was a lot of corruption on both sides by the adults and agencies involved, and sadly many of the adopted 'orphans' were subsequently abandoned again by the adopters - to live in limbo and pain.
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