Arizona passes strict illegal immigration act (Yuma: deal, pay, place)

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by burzum22

What the hell kind of argument is this? The outrage is people don't want to be treated like second class citizens. People don't want to be detained for hours in an ICE facility. What does an illegal immigrant look like? I guess i look like one since i share the same skin color as 90% of the illegal immigrants in Arizona, however that shouldnt give the right to ask me for proof of citizenship because of this arbitrary law.

Honestly most people wouldnt have a problem with it if it was more clear in what exactly an "illegal immigrant" looks like. The fact is hispanic american's don't want to be trageted for their race, this is where the outrage is coming from and people conveniently ignore the fact that arizona has a large hispanic population which happen to be AMERICAN.

If i was living in arizona i would want to get the hell out of that state. I wouldn't want to worry every time i leave my house about being stopped by the police because i fit the description of an illegal immigrant. I don't think people get how humiliating that would be, to be asked for "papers" like you are a second class citizen. What if the cop didn't believe i was "legal?" What if i chose not to bring my birth certificate? I would be detained and taken to an ICE facility for hours until it was sorted out. Would that cop then be held accountable? No.

and honestly you people are delusional if you think the police are going to ask white people for proof of citizenship.

Running with your ball: what about 'brown' Anglos? I have known quite a few over the years that look Mestizo Hispanic, they are of mostly Italian heritage. Hell: I bet that if Sheriff Joe was 20 years old here in Arizona---------HE would have been profiled.

Anyway you spin it: the illegal alien population; like stray cats/dogs, is out of control and they need to be stopped and deported. Unfortunately; said illegals do happen to be 'brown' for the most part hence innocent folks looking the part possibly catching flak.

BTW: when I was younger in Wash DC/California, I was profiled from time to time by LE--------------oh well. I did not like being hassled by 'the Man'; but, now that I am older.............I now understand where they were coming from since so many of my peers were indeed bad apples.

[burzum22]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

Running with your ball: what about 'brown' Anglos? I have known quite a few over the years that look Mestizo Hispanic, they are of mostly Italian heritage.

And you don't see that as a problem? This law opens up the potential for legal citizens that look "hispanic" to be harassed or detained for being "brown"

I don't want any citizen to be asked for proof of citizenship, is that really so bad? I don't want white looking anglo's or hispanics to be detained for not having their birth certificate on their person.

This is my huge issue with this law. Unfortunately since 90% of illegal immigrants in AZ are hispanic, the only thing cops have to go by is skin color. If said police officer asks anyone to prove their citizenship chances are the person is going to be brown. If said officer doesn't believe you, he has the right to take you to an ICE facility.

Do you not see a problem with this? Until any of you can tell me how police are going to differentiate between illegal and legal citizens of color, i will never enter your state while a law like this exists.

[DBCC]

What annoys me most is that the illegals are claiming their "Constitutional rights" What absolute cr*p.! If they claim constitutional rights in terms of American law, then they should have adhered to the laws of the country in the first place by not coming in here illegally.
There are no constitutional rights to illegals. They can practice their constitutional rights in their own countries, not protesting on the streets where they have no right to be and provoking acts of civil disobedience, endangering the lives and threatening the established laws of a country who protects its citizens.
Illegal immigrants: Begone! You have no rights, don't claim them,
EMPLOYERS of illegal immigrants: You too should be prosecuted and held responsible for conspiring against the state and nation.
An GOD BLESS AMERICA and Arizona for taking steps to stop the flow. I wish other states would follow this example.

Everyone in the USA should have some form of US recognized photo identification on their person. There is no excuse for not having one. If you are detained to verify identity, then it is your own fault.

[burzum22]

wow.. i guess it's impossible to have an educated discussion in this thread. Mod Cut: Pushing for said is soliciting.

[MotleyCrew]

Originally Posted by burzum22

wow.. i guess it's impossible to have an educated discussion in this thread. Mod Cut from post above.

I think the responses in most part are pretty reasonable. You are a typical liberal mouthpiece and if the conversation does not agree with you then you will simply claim "intellegence" to make yourself feel above the masses. Please stay in your state and inivite all our border guests to come and live in your city.

[MotleyCrew]

Originally Posted by DBCC

What annoys me most is that the illegals are claiming their "Constitutional rights" What absolute cr*p.! If they claim constitutional rights in terms of American law, then they should have adhered to the laws of the country in the first place by not coming in here illegally.
There are no constitutional rights to illegals. They can practice their constitutional rights in their own countries, not protesting on the streets where they have no right to be and provoking acts of civil disobedience, endangering the lives and threatening the established laws of a country who protects its citizens.
Illegal immigrants: Begone! You have no rights, don't claim them,
EMPLOYERS of illegal immigrants: You too should be prosecuted and held responsible for conspiring against the state and nation.
An GOD BLESS AMERICA and Arizona for taking steps to stop the flow. I wish other states would follow this example.

Everyone in the USA should have some form of US recognized photo identification on their person. There is no excuse for not having one. If you are detained to verify identity, then it is your own fault.

I agree. Maybe Mexico should adopt a constitution like ours. The employers should pay a hefty fine or be suddenly without a license to do business in AZ.

[burzum22]

Originally Posted by MotleyCrew

I think the responses in most part are pretty reasonable. You are a typical liberal mouthpiece and if the conversation does not agree with you then you will simply claim "intellegence" to make yourself feel above the masses. Please stay in your state and inivite all our border guests to come and live in your city.

I guess if the fact that i don't want there to be potiential for american citizens to be harassed or detained for simply having brown skin that makes me a "liberal mouthpiece"

Two things;

This law does not address illegal immigration, you want to stop illegal immigration, how about your legislators pass state law's that fine employers 10,000$ a day for hiring an illegal immigrant. Know why that wont happen?

because any serious attempt to expel undocumented immigrants as opposed to marginalizing/oppressing them will be soundly opposed by the business community that conservatives lick the boots of because the former is unprofitable and the latter is not

The hilarious thing is, ignorant people such as yourself are being manipulated into thinking that this law is actually going to do anything meaningful, which it wont, since it does not even begin to address the main issue of illegal immigration which is employment. Your legislators all know this, but they also know that this law will make you feel good and trick you into thinking they are actually addressing the problem.


Immigration issue aside, people have valid concerns, as i've stated. but i guess i'm the bad guy here since i don't want legal american's to be put in a position where they feel they need to have their birth certificate on their person for fear of being detained!

[DBCC]

Burzum22. A driving license is enough. A birth certificate would only have to be produced if there was reason to believe something was amiss.

[burzum22]

Originally Posted by DBCC

Burzum22. A driving license is enough. A birth certificate would only have to be produced if there was reason to believe something was amiss.

Mod Cut: No links with less than 10 posts.

Wrong. having a drivers license (or any other state issued ID) isn't enough, even having your social security card with you won't be enough. Just a few days ago a guy got detained in Arizona by ICE so he could prove his citizenship. His wife had to bring down both of their birth certificates. ICE said that its "this was standard operating procedure."

[mauiwowie]

Originally Posted by revelated

Negative. What our government has done is turn a blind eye to the fact that its own black letter specifically states "citizen" as a de facto recipient of protections. Given that illegal immigrants are not "citizens" since they have not received citizenSHIP, it stands to reason that it's not a matter of "they have rights because they're here!!", but rather, the government refuses to enforce that citizenship requirement as a condition of rights being granted.

In other words, one who has not achieved citizenship under the law has no rights under the law, despite what the government seems to be allowing. The media has fooled you into believing that somehow, every human being walking in the 50 states and Puerto Rico has all sorts of rights and is automatically an American Citizen, protected under its wing. It's false. What the framers clearly intended is for those who have achieved citizenship should receive those protections. Illegal immigrants have not done so nor have they made any effort to do so, thus their continuing illegal status.

Now mind you, this doesn't count "certain unalienable rights" as defined in the Declaration of Independence:

• Life: unless one forfeits their right to Life by committing a crime so egregious that you should no longer be allowed it;
• Liberty: None of the illegal immigrants are slaves, they're not being forced to work nor are they incarcerated without reason; and
• Pursuit of Happiness: nobody is stopping them from becoming citizens, but they have to do it OUR way.

No one would argue that mere presence grants citizenship. However, believing that presence in the United States doesn't grant Constititional protections is contrary to the facts.

You could have researched this and found the information, but you continued to reiterate your opinion. Maybe you don't feel all persons should have Constitutional rights. If so you may say you disagree with the precedent, but you should discontinue your claims that aliens have no protections under the law.

It seems like you are taking this information to infer that having Constitutional rights somehow grants citizenship, which is NOT true. Congress may make laws restricting or easing immigration laws and they will be upheld by the Supreme Court. However, states like Arizona may not and this law will likely be struck down. See Henderson v. New York.


Here are some relevant cases:

Wong Wing v. United States

Plyler v. Doe

INS v. Lopez-Mendoza

It is true that Congress has very broad powers to limit and restrict immigration, even going so far as to exclude all non-Caucasians or those of African ancestry from becoming citizens.

I don't agree with AZ SB1070. It is still law until it is changed and that's how laws work.