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Old 05-07-2011, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,924 posts, read 31,837,353 times
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No, if I had some whack-a-loon belief then my belief deserves to be pointed out for what it is. For instance the belief in the rapture on May 21st, or all the JW end time predictions over the years are ridiculous, and the ridiculous deserves ridicule, as these guys are so apt at.


YouTube - Penn & Teller Bull**** - The Bible - Fact or Fiction Part 1
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Old 05-07-2011, 09:44 AM
 
3,884 posts, read 8,978,827 times
Reputation: 1477
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Yes, on a philosophical and legal level, people do have the free speech right to be obnoxious and insulting. I would never deny anyone his free speech rights. But, as you point out, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

But, I'd have to somewhat disagree with you on this:

"The other side of that is theists have the right to disrespect or demean atheists."

I can't say about other "theists'," but Christian's don't have that right. We are commanded to love our fellow man as we love ourselves and insulting, belittling or condemning another person is not an act of love.
Then why do you do it? When you thank God for your life and home being saved in a tornado while your neighbors was not or their life was taken you are being disrespectful.
When you publicly thank God for your award, or wealth, or good luck when their are clearly people around you not as fortunate then you are being cruel.

When you "mission" by doing helpful things for those in need and use a time of their weakness due to financial or emotional hardship to bring them into your beliefs, or worse yet taking them away from their own, you are taking advantage of a person and it's selfish.

Christians do it all the time, they are always lacking respect for others like this. The worst part about it is they are conceded enough to think they are doing themselves a favor by sharing their delusion.

Do they not realize that this is how it is viewed by people who lack their delusion? Or people who may be of another faith than Christian?

The minute a Christian says to me "God thinks, does, is", etc. it is disrespectful and egotistic. You would think I was mean and disrespectful if I walked up to you and said God doesn't think, he doesn't do, he isn't, etc.
Why do you think there is a difference?

What exactly do you think a response would be to me if I stated on television that I didn't think God blessed America? Right!
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:14 AM
 
40,252 posts, read 26,848,697 times
Reputation: 6065
Default Why are we expected to 'respect' other people's delusions?

Bottom line: As long as they respect your delusions it is only fitting that you should respect theirs. The problem then becomes ASSumption about others without any evidence of their disrespect. If you have NOT been given clear evidence of disrespect . . . you should not initiate disrespect.
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:54 AM
 
3,884 posts, read 8,978,827 times
Reputation: 1477
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Bottom line: As long as they respect your delusions it is only fitting that you should respect theirs. The problem then becomes ASSumption about others without any evidence of their disrespect. If you have NOT been given clear evidence of disrespect . . . you should not initiate disrespect.
Ignorance, (A willful neglect or refusal to acquire knowledge which one may acquire and it is his duty to have).

Respect, (To consider worthy of esteem; to regard with honor).

I think the two differ. I ASSume Christians disrespect Atheist,I know they do, while I may admit they are ignorant of their lack of respect, I find that disrespectful.
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Old 05-07-2011, 11:24 AM
 
40,252 posts, read 26,848,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
Ignorance, (A willful neglect or refusal to acquire knowledge which one may acquire and it is his duty to have).
There is no implied or mandated willfulness or refusal in the concept of ignorance. It is the absence of knowledge, period. Your bigotry, bias and judgmental attitude have added the adjectives.[/quote]
Respect, (To consider worthy of esteem; to regard with honor).
I think the two differ. I ASSume Christians disrespect Atheist,I know they do, while I may admit they are ignorant of their lack of respect, I find that disrespectful. [/quote]More ASSumption, bigotry and bias. YOU are not the arbiter of knowledge or what deserves respect . . . especially since you have not revealed any exceptional or deep knowledge of anything but your own self-importance and reverence for what you consider to be common sense (without any indication of scholarly understanding of the real epistemological issues involved). I reiterate . . . mutual respect should be the default until real disrespect is evidenced.
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Old 05-07-2011, 01:10 PM
 
3,884 posts, read 8,978,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
There is no implied or mandated willfulness or refusal in the concept of ignorance. It is the absence of knowledge, period. Your bigotry, bias and judgmental attitude have added the adjectives.
Respect, (To consider worthy of esteem; to regard with honor).
I think the two differ. I ASSume Christians disrespect Atheist,I know they do, while I may admit they are ignorant of their lack of respect, I find that disrespectful. [/quote]More ASSumption, bigotry and bias. YOU are not the arbiter of knowledge or what deserves respect . . . especially since you have not revealed any exceptional or deep knowledge of anything but your own self-importance and reverence for what you consider to be common sense (without any indication of scholarly understanding of the real epistemological issues involved). I reiterate . . . mutual respect should be the default until real disrespect is evidenced.[/quote]

Then you disagree with the dictionary, maybe your meaning comes from the bible, ignorance has more than one meaning as stated, I used one because it applies.
I believe that Christians are ignorant of Atheist beliefs as an act of refusal to acknowledge there being any importance of learning such beliefs or respecting them. Ask around, Im sure you will get plenty of ignorant responses from Christians on why they ASSume we should all seek their GODS word when they try and spread it freely amongst the world.
The last reasoning I'd give to this invasion of GOD is respect for others! Especially when some people loose their lives over choosing too not believe the bullsheap.
What you say might hold an ounce of truth if their weren't thousands of missionaries knocking on someones door as we speak. What kind of respect is that? They don't respect me nor do they care or respect my beliefs, they are on a MISSION. That MISSION is what I indeed label as disrespectful and ignorant. I am assuring you that the meaning of MISSION I'm using is this one. (A series of special Christian services for purposes of proselytizing) and I'm also ASSuring you that this is the meaning of their use as well.
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,703,127 times
Reputation: 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
Then why do you do it? When you thank God for your life and home being saved in a tornado while your neighbors was not or their life was taken you are being disrespectful.
When you publicly thank God for your award, or wealth, or good luck when their are clearly people around you not as fortunate then you are being cruel.



When have I done those things?

Quote:
When you "mission" by doing helpful things for those in need and use a time of their weakness due to financial or emotional hardship to bring them into your beliefs, or worse yet taking them away from their own, you are taking advantage of a person and it's selfish.


When have I done those things?

Quote:
Christians do it all the time, they are always lacking respect for others like this. The worst part about it is they are conceded enough to think they are doing themselves a favor by sharing their delusion.


Boy, you've got a really bad, and really false, idea about Christian's, don't you?

Quote:
Do they not realize that this is how it is viewed by people who lack their delusion? Or people who may be of another faith than Christian?


We should know.

Quote:
The minute a Christian says to me "God thinks, does, is", etc. it is disrespectful and egotistic. You would think I was mean and disrespectful if I walked up to you and said God doesn't think, he doesn't do, he isn't, etc.
Quote:
Why do you think there is a difference?


Uh...no. I wouldn't think that was mean and egotistic. Then again, I don't think everything is about me.

Quote:
What exactly do you think a response would be to me if I stated on television that I didn't think God blessed America? Right!
You'd probably be ridiculed and made fun of, but that wouldn't make it right.

As for me personally, I'd not only partially agree with you, but rise to your defense as well.

Would you defend me?
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,703,127 times
Reputation: 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
I believe that Christians are ignorant of Atheist beliefs as an act of refusal to acknowledge there being any importance of learning such beliefs or respecting them. Ask around, Im sure you will get plenty of ignorant responses from Christians on why they ASSume we should all seek their GODS word when they try and spread it freely amongst the world.
The last reasoning I'd give to this invasion of GOD is respect for others! Especially when some people loose their lives over choosing too not believe the bullsheap.
What you say might hold an ounce of truth if their weren't thousands of missionaries knocking on someones door as we speak. What kind of respect is that? They don't respect me nor do they care or respect my beliefs, they are on a MISSION. That MISSION is what I indeed label as disrespectful and ignorant. I am assuring you that the meaning of MISSION I'm using is this one. (A series of special Christian services for purposes of proselytizing) and I'm also ASSuring you that this is the meaning of their use as well.

Do you consider it disrespectful if salesman knocks on your door and offers you a good deal? How about a telephone solicitor? How about a neighbor who is concerned about you?
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:56 PM
 
40,252 posts, read 26,848,697 times
Reputation: 6065
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post

I believe that Christians are ignorant of Atheist beliefs as an act of refusal to acknowledge there being any importance of learning such beliefs or respecting them. Ask around, Im sure you will get plenty of ignorant responses from Christians on why they ASSume we should all seek their GODS word when they try and spread it freely amongst the world.
The last reasoning I'd give to this invasion of GOD is respect for others! Especially when some people loose their lives over choosing too not believe the bullsheap.
What you say might hold an ounce of truth if their weren't thousands of missionaries knocking on someones door as we speak. What kind of respect is that? They don't respect me nor do they care or respect my beliefs, they are on a MISSION. That MISSION is what I indeed label as disrespectful and ignorant. I am assuring you that the meaning of MISSION I'm using is this one. (A series of special Christian services for purposes of proselytizing) and I'm also ASSuring you that this is the meaning of their use as well.
I said if disrespect is evidenced that is a different story. It is your pre-emptive ASSumption of disrespect based on category (Christian) that is the essence of bigotry. Until disrespect is evidenced (NOT assumed prejudicially) . . . respect should be shown.
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 2,983,922 times
Reputation: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Do you consider it disrespectful if salesman knocks on your door and offers you a good deal? How about a telephone solicitor? How about a neighbor who is concerned about you?
I do actually get tired of salesman. Because they all have a 'good deal'. And to a good salesman, you're really little more than an account or a consumer. And as far as concern, I have a hard time believing that converters are as concerned for me as they are concerned for their numbers - just like how a salesman is concerned primarily with the bottom line.
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