Why is MARTA so limited? (Atlanta, Decatur: renter, to buy, quality of life)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

One thing people don't realize about having a system as massive and frequently used as DC's system is the amount of maintenance it takes to keep it in a state of good repair. Metro is replacing all those switches and track now though which was long overdue. The system will have over 129 total miles of track with 98 stations soon, so this maintenance needed to get done now before the new line opens next year. Metro has come to the end of its life cycle and this new maintenance work will take it through the next life cycle till 2040.

If Atlanta decides to get serious about transit I could easily MARTA equaling the Metro by 2040. Wouldn't that be nice?

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by arjay57

If Atlanta decides to get serious about transit I could easily MARTA equaling the Metro by 2040. Wouldn't that be nice?

That would be incredible. If Marta was able to add 81 miles of new track and 60 additional new stations to equal Metro by 2040. That would be the largest and most impressive feat of our time. I know it would never happen, but I wonder what that would cost hypothetically? In 2012 dollars, how much would that cost I wonder. I would guess about 24 billion if none of it needed to be tunneled. Most of DC proper stations are under ground so if it was built how metro operates in DC, 1/3 of the stations would all need to be underground like they are in DC. That would add another 30 billion at the least to the total for a whopping 54 billion dollars. That's without future inflation too. It's a shame how much it costs to build things in America. This could be built for half that in China. Sad......but we dont just take land which comes at a price.

I think the TSPLOST was supposed to bring in 10 billion right? That would bring in 30 billion by 2040 which would be enough with federal matching, think about the system Atlanta could have with that money. DC is supposed to be building a new line around 2030 and we need to figure out how we are going to pay for it too. The entire line will be underground in DC proper.

[cqholt]

If Atlanta decides to get serious about transit I could easily MARTA equaling the Metro by 2040. Wouldn't that be nice?

It would but will never happen. So instead MARTA will keep serving the areas it does, extend the Red Line and Blue Line, build the BeltLine and have it connect with the downtown streetcar. As gas prices continue their violate rise and decline living in the outer suburbs and exurbs with cheap land and large homes will become too expensive. People will start to move back into the city as school clusters improve. Poor people will be forced out by rising property values and where will they move to? The suburbs, already happening here. Poverty rise at 2X the rate in the suburbs than in urban Atlanta.
First, Clayton County needs to pass a binding MARTA sales tax referendum and start getting buses down there. Eventually I can see a rail line from East Point to Jonesboro or Morrow, via Hapeville and Int'l Terminal.

[mattee01]

Originally Posted by cqholt

It would but will never happen. So instead MARTA will keep serving the areas it does, extend the Red Line and Blue Line, build the BeltLine and have it connect with the downtown streetcar. As gas prices continue their violate rise and decline living in the outer suburbs and exurbs with cheap land and large homes will become too expensive. People will start to move back into the city as school clusters improve. Poor people will be forced out by rising property values and where will they move to? The suburbs, already happening here. Poverty rise at 2X the rate in the suburbs than in urban Atlanta.
First, Clayton County needs to pass a binding MARTA sales tax referendum and start getting buses down there. Eventually I can see a rail line from East Point to Jonesboro or Morrow, via Hapeville and Int'l Terminal.

Only thing is the wealthier people can afford the vehicles and gas. It would be wonderful if they moved back in...to an extent, not everybody. I wouldn't like the city if it was all rich, and then if the poorer people get pushed out how will they get around without marta? It'd be wonderful if it would extend but I don't see anything beyond the red line extension and beltline coming out before 2020.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by cqholt

As gas prices continue their violate rise and decline living in the outer suburbs and exurbs with cheap land and large homes will become too expensive. People will start to move back into the city as school clusters improve.

Not going to happen, because again....you make the false assumption and false premise that people living in the "outer suburbs and exurbs" are commuting to "the city" which by and large is not the case.

You also make an incongruous assumption that homes in the outer suburbs will "become too expensive," yet you imply that demand will be going down. Typically when demand is reduced, prices also go down. If prices are rising, wouldn't that imply that those houses are in greater demand?

[cqholt]

Not going to happen, because again....you make the false assumption and false premise that people living in the "outer suburbs and exurbs" are commuting to "the city" which by and large is not the case.

Please tell me where in that line did I say that. Most suburb-to-suburb commutes takes people along the top-end-perimeter, which is pretty much urban now.

You also make an incongruous assumption that homes in the outer suburbs will "become too expensive," yet you imply that demand will be going down. Typically when demand is reduced, prices also go down. If prices are rising, wouldn't that imply that those houses are in greater demand?

Obviously you can't read because I said none of what you accuse me of saying. All I said was that with the volatility of gas prices, the cheapness of homes in the outer suburbs will diminish. Yes, the houses are cheaper and people get 'more house for their buck' but with the inconstancy of gas prices that cheaper home will become more expensive because of the cost of gas, insurance, maintenance, and time. Now I know you work from home, YEAH! but not everyone has that luxury and a lot of people must commute to jobs.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

That would be incredible. If Marta was able to add 81 miles of new track and 60 additional new stations to equal Metro by 2040. That would be the largest and most impressive feat of our time. I know it would never happen, but I wonder what that would cost hypothetically?

Oh, I don't think it's that unlikely, IF Atlanta decides to do it. We have a history of doing what people say is impossible.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Obviously you can't read because I said none of what you accuse me of saying. All I said was that with the volatility of gas prices, the cheapness of homes in the outer suburbs will diminish. Yes, the houses are cheaper and people get 'more house for their buck' but with the inconstancy of gas prices that cheaper home will become more expensive because of the cost of gas, insurance, maintenance, and time. Now I know you work from home, YEAH! but not everyone has that luxury and a lot of people must commute to jobs.

Why will "gas, insurance, maintenance, and time" be more costly? Again...your point is predicated upon people who live in the suburbs traveling a long distance for their commute, presumably to the City of Atlanta. That is by and large not the case.

So it has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with your premise, which continues to be faulty.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Lady's Man

marta is limited because Atlanta is the least dense of any major city in the world. It's pretty simple. Public transit doesnt work as well when the population is spread out, as compared to a highly dense compact area. With that said, Marta is still good enough to serve as someone's only mode of transit if necessary. In Atlanta, however, the majority of people have made the decision to live and work without having to rely on public transit. They have essentially traded the convenience of living in a transit oriented community for cheap property. This is what Atlanta has become... a cluster of scattered neighborhoods that combine to form a metropolitan area. Ánd because we dont have any natural boundaries like most major cities in the world, there is no clear stopping point for our sprawl.

A couple of things I have learned growing up here:
1) Most people here do not like city living
2) Most people here associate public transit with "city" living, even though I think most would come to appreciate a comination of good public transit and suburban living
3) Most people here associate public transit with crime (race issues are also involved) and as a mode of transit for only poor people
4) People that like city living move away from Atlanta
5) Most people do not trust the local goverment - thus, it's almost impossible to raise money for transit via tax increases

So how do we improve transit access? We can make minimal improvments, like extending Marta lines a few miles, but i am still convinced that nothing will significantly change unless the 5 perscentions I listed above start to change. Additionally, we need a heck of a lot more density and jobs in the city. Otherwise, public transit, and in particular commuter rail, cannot provide a major impact on traffic congestion.

I believe Atlanta should stive to become more like DC. DC of course stuggled with crime and public transit ridership, but today it has become a city with the second highest ridership in the country. The city has also been cleaned up a great deal. But most importantly, it has shown that public transit in the suburbs can work.. and work well. And it's worked because the people embraced it and the city grew, became denser, and added jobs. This is what we should stive for.

This is basically what I've learned living here. One of the reasons I've tried to leave. One big reason I'm here is because I haven't been able to get a job anywhere. I'm basically an unemployed college grad living with his parents in suburbia. For many reasons, I don't have much reason to stay. However, the economy doesn't allow for me to leave right now.

[cqholt]

Why will "gas, insurance, maintenance, and time" be more costly? Again...your point is predicated upon people who live in the suburbs traveling a long distance for their commute, presumably to the City of Atlanta. That is by and large not the case.

There's your issue, you presume I mean Atlanta. I work with people that commute from Kennesaw or Winder to Dunwoody, a suburb-to-suburb commute, but both travel in highly congested areas and are farther than 10 miles.
Gas continues to be violate and will never go below $3/gallon again. The more someone drives the higher and more often maintenance. And of course insurance always goes up, with the risk of getting in an accident as more people drive.
Your a joke, assuming I think everyone drives into the city for work. Hell I live in the city and work in the suburbs, so I think I know about Atlanta being a polycentric metro area.
No one else on here is calling me premise faulty, so what's your problem? I think I have backed up everything I said.