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Many Japanese brands ARE American cars...meaning made here, and often with many components made here as well.
Toyota is a good example of an American Japanese car - meaning for US consumers, the cars they buy are mostly made here and are essentially just as American as American brands cars, including being made by American workers.
Wrong.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Obviously you do not work in the industry.
If your definition of being "American" is 75% of the R&D budget being spent in Japan, cars built with 75% foreign parts, and all the profits being shipped back to Japan then your definition of "American" is a lot different than mine.
Is it better to have the Camry built in the US than Japan? Sure...no argument there, but that does not make a car "American."
It's really a shame to see so many "Americans" rip US Companies trying to do their best in an uneven playing field. If you worked in the industry you might have a better appreciation for the uphill battle American companies have on a worldwide scale. (Not just in autos, either, look at how many other US industries have been struggling and/or getting bought by foreign companies.)
Years ago, I was talking to one of my wife's cousin who worked in the auto parts manufacturing industry. Their company make parts for both domestic and foreign cars. Didn't go into the exact details of these parts.
He said that American companies will still order parts with minimal imperfection but when it came to the Japanese companies, they will not accept these parts at all and demand that these imperfect items be remade again. He said the Japanese companies will not compromise when it came to quality.
I have NEVER seen Ford or GM accept anything less that what met the specifications in the purchase agreement and I have worked on a lot of product programs. I'd love to know the specifics on that situation as I find that really, really hard to believe.
I mean my goodness, one of the parts that I still have PTSD over was the darn fender mounted antenna we used on the F-150 years ago. That darn part took up so much time because we outsourced it to Asia (against my recommendation) and 2 suppliers later they still couldn't make the darn thing right. (All to save $2.....which on a $10 part is a lot of money and I get that.)
This dragged on and on and on for years. It was painful. It kept failing our "car wash test" where we would essentially run it through the car wash 100 times and see if it bent at all. Most of the time I could not even tell it was bent a little bit but the lasers that checked the alignment showed it was. It had to be 1% within straight vertical or something like that, a bend of almost nothing, but Ford would not accept them unless they were perfectly within spec.
That's the kind of operation I saw over and over again.
Even when the brand new Tundra came out in 2007 it was getting destroyed in the market so not sure how anyone can say "king" and "Tundra" in the same sentence.
Here is how bad of a flop that Tundra has been. Toyota initially felt that product would be so good they built a whole new assembly plant for it. (San Antonio.) They thought they could sell 250-300K of them per year. When the '07 launched, they never even hit the 200K sales mark (about 1/3 of what F-150 sales are) and it has been downhill ever since. They had to re-tool the plant to allow other products to be built there because they can't sell enough Tundras to fill it.
Now they sell about 120K Tundras per year. In the full-size truck segment that is a fraction of the overall market share.
Didn't you see where I said it was not king in sales in the very same post you talking about. I was referring to how quick it was and off the line, and all the good reviews about that 5.7 It was hard to beat in performance. I had a 2005 Titan and the Titan was pretty much the same until the new tundra came out. Then the big 3 all came out with more powerful engines soon after the new tundra. The big 3 dominates this segment, I also talked about that. I understand everything you are saying, you must not have read my other post upthread. I was very much into trucks, bought all the truck mags and talked truck day and night, I get it.
Indeed. The Ford Fiesta is made in Mexico. Most "Japanese" vehicles marketed in the U. S. are made in that country. BMW's largest plant is in South Carolina.
Everyone build in Mexico, including the Japanese....that's irrelevant.
But focusing on the final assembly point is wrong. Too many people do that. Final Assembly Labor only accounts for about 10-15% of the final cost of a vehicle. Material costs make up the most, and a Mexico-built Fiesta has far more American parts in it than a US-built Honda.
Unfortunately there is no good way for the general public to research this. The Domestic Content labels are so far off from reality it just confuses things even more. Only those who work in the industry can really understand the complexity of it.
Didn't you see where I said it was not king in sales in the very same post you talking about. I was referring to how quick it was and off the line, and all the good reviews about that 5.7 It was hard to beat in performance. I had a 2005 Titan and the Titan was pretty much the same until the new tundra came out. Then the big 3 all came out with more powerful engines soon after the new tundra. The big 3 dominates this segment, I also talked about that.
It was fast because it was cheaply made with lightweight components.
I was working on the F-150 when the Titan first came out. I remember the day the first Motor Trend review first came out and the Titan had a second and a half advantage over the F-150 in the 0-60 time. That caused chaos at Ford....it was shocking, everyone was like "how the heck did they do that????" Everyone was freaking out trying to find answers.
Well fast-forward about 6 months later after our teardowns were complete and they were like "no freaking wonder it's faster, this thing is made of tin foil." They had all these trucks torn apart with like-parts lying side by side and it was comical how cheap those Titan (and Tundra) parts were compared to the F-150/Silverado/Ram.
It was fast because it was cheaply made with lightweight components.
I was working on the F-150 when the Titan first came out. I remember the day the first Motor Trend review first came out and the Titan had a second and a half advantage over the F-150 in the 0-60 time. That caused chaos at Ford....it was shocking, everyone was like "how the heck did they do that????" Everyone was freaking out trying to find answers.
Well fast-forward about 6 months later after our teardowns were complete and they were like "no freaking wonder it's faster, this thing is made of tin foil." They had all these trucks torn apart with like-parts lying side by side and it was comical how cheap those Titan (and Tundra) parts were compared to the F-150/Silverado/Ram.
The Titan had the 5.6 twin-cam, the Endurance V8 they called it, and it sound so sweet. Then I installed JBA headers and exhaust, and it really sound good. The new Tundra had the Titan in it's bulls eye, so it came out with the 5.7 and a six speed tranny vs just five for the Titan. It topped the Titan in all specs and was quicker. But the big 3 didn't take long to catch up, they were not going to let Toyota or Nissan put a dent into a segment they dominated.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Obviously you do not work in the industry.
If your definition of being "American" is 75% of the R&D budget being spent in Japan, cars built with 75% foreign parts, and all the profits being shipped back to Japan then your definition of "American" is a lot different than mine.
Is it better to have the Camry built in the US than Japan? Sure...no argument there, but that does not make a car "American."
It's really a shame to see so many "Americans" rip US Companies trying to do their best in an uneven playing field. If you worked in the industry you might have a better appreciation for the uphill battle American companies have on a worldwide scale. (Not just in autos, either, look at how many other US industries have been struggling and/or getting bought by foreign companies.)
You are right, I don't work in the industry. But that doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about either.
With all due respect, yes it does. Like I said in previous posts, the Domestic Content calculation has severe flaws that make those #'s completely irrelevant and inaccurate. Linking random media articles referencing that does not make you educated on the subject.
Let me ask you this, if Toyota sends 50 parts from Asia to a third-party owned warehouse across the street from their assembly plant, assembles those 50 pieces together as one big module in that warehouse, and then delivers that 50-piece module across the street to the assembly plant do you think that big 50-piece part should count as domestic or foreign content?
Material costs make up the most, and a Mexico-built Fiesta has far more American parts in it than a US-built Honda.
Unfortunately there is no good way for the general public to research this. The Domestic Content labels are so far off from reality it just confuses things even more. Only those who work in the industry can really understand the complexity of it.
According to what I have found:
Fiesta: less than 15% domestic parts and isn't made in the US at all.
With all due respect, yes it does. Like I said in previous posts, the Domestic Content calculation has severe flaws that make those #'s completely irrelevant and inaccurate. Linking random media articles referencing that does not make you educated on the subject.
Let me ask you this, if Toyota sends 50 parts from Asia to a third-party owned warehouse across the street from their assembly plant, assembles those 50 pieces together as one big module in that warehouse, and then delivers that 50-piece module across the street to the assembly plant do you think that big 50-piece part should count as domestic or foreign content?
Well there are industry analysts who have created a method for measuring the mix of domestic vs foreign parts, and the links are based on their algorithm and findings.
I'm going to give them the "expert" status , I don't have that knowledge of the industry and I'd argue that simply because you work in the industry, that might only qualify you as an expert on your own brand.
I'm not saying that what you describe does not occur, as I have no way of knowing, but surely other people whose job it is to know, do know, and I would assume that if this practice were going on they would know that and account for it.
If you're implying that they know it, and still count that as domestically sourced, then that is indeed something that would skew the numbers , however, without evidence to the contrary, I'm going to assume they aren't doing that, as it would clearly be unethical as a practice for analysts and consumer advocates to propagate a falsehood to the investment community and to their customers. In fact it might even be criminal if it affects investor behavior or was intended to. And if not criminal, then a civil violation given the fiduciary duties owed by analysts to their clients, who are PAYING them to get the facts, not blow smoke up their butt.
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