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I dose not matter because the American automakers are getting out of the sedan business for the most part because they don’t sell and pickups and large suv and crvs are what is selling, and Japan can’t come close to building a pickup that can compete with the big 3 .
There is really nothing currently that the Big 3 offer I would rush out and buy. Maybe a Raptor but that’s just to drive one. I can probably rent one and get it out of my system. I don’t think long term I would keep it. The truck I would seriously consider is a Superduty with the new 7.3 but that’s because it’s a pushrod motor which means I won’t have failing cam phasers, timing chain guides and I won’t touch a diesel today. And I would wait a few years to see if they got it right.
Right now Chevy has up to 10k in rebates Tundra has about 2500 total. 1500 customer cash 500 college rebate 500 military discount. They offer nowhere near the discounts GM does to move vehicles.
The reason i no longer cares about buying domestics isn’t because I’m not patriotic it’s because the product they make is simply not as reliable as the imports I purchased. Yes they have come a long way and the build quality has improved by leaps and bounds. It’s still just a little bit not enough.
GM killed people. Any company that says that it’s financially better to take a lawsuit over a recall tells me what they think about the customer base. I could care less if Chevy falls off the face of the earth. And since it’s my money I decide how I spend it
The rebates you are talking about are retail incentive programs that are public info and available to see online. What you aren’t factoring in are the hidden “dealer cash” programs, such as stairstep programs, that Asian automakers in particular like to use. There is nothing wrong with doing more incentives behind the scenes - just a different way to get to the same end result.
That being said, at the end of the day what incentives are being offered are completely irrelevant. Actual purchase price is what matters. So let’s say you had a Tundra and a Chevy you liked sitting on the lot.
Tundra = $50,000 quoted price less $2,500 rebate = sales price of $47,500
Chevy = $55,000 less $10,000 = $45,000
All things being equal the Chevy is the better buy at that point. (Assuming the customer has no preference between the two trucks otherwise.).
As far as Chevy killing people boy you are just reaching there. Guess you don’t care about Toyota, Honda and so many Japanese companies “killing people” with their Takata airbags, huh?
The rebates you are talking about are retail incentive programs that are public info and available to see online. What you aren’t factoring in are the hidden “dealer cash” programs, such as stairstep programs, that Asian automakers in particular like to use. There is nothing wrong with doing more incentives behind the scenes - just a different way to get to the same end result.
That being said, at the end of the day what incentives are being offered are completely irrelevant. Actual purchase price is what matters. So let’s say you had a Tundra and a Chevy you liked sitting on the lot.
Tundra = $50,000 quoted price less $2,500 rebate = sales price of $47,500
Chevy = $55,000 less $10,000 = $45,000
All things being equal the Chevy is the better buy at that point. (Assuming the customer has no preference between the two trucks otherwise.).
As far as Chevy killing people boy you are just reaching there. Guess you don’t care about Toyota, Honda and so many Japanese companies “killing people” with their Takata airbags, huh?
Yep some people can’t let go of the past and they forgot about the Toyota stuck gas pedal, and the air bag. People can forget those problems but if it’s an American manufacture they can just never forget.
I didn't, but I knew the guys at GM that did this. Which matters little.
I do know that what you describe is, based on my experience, much more likely for Big 3 vehicles than Toyotas. My baseline? I happen to own a Toyota 100 Series Land Cruiser which has spent it's almost 400k miles life driving offroad in the desert Southwest as well as all over central and south america, and arctic Canada and throughout Alaska. No rattles.
I also have a Toyota Tacoma with almost 650k miles on it. No rattles either.
Now, I will admit, my Toyota FJ60 Land Cruiser does have some rattles but it also has spent 225k miles driving off road since I bought it in 87 and it is basically a steel shed so there you have it.
I have also owned (although no longer) a Chevy K2500 Suburban that started falling apart the day I got it new off the dealer lot.
So, anecdotally, and in my personal experience, it's Toyota for the win.
I get that, but a Tacoma is far more competitive in its segment than a Sequoia, BY FAR. A land cruiser is a well known tough and rugged vehicle. Where I get amped-up is when people take that blind loyalty with Toyota and apply it to every vehicle they make. They make some duds, too, you know? And the Tundra/Sequoia twins just happen to be two of them...and the sales numbers prove that out.
I think Toyota could make a good pickup/SUV if Japan allowed them the necessary budget to do it. They just don’t invest the money in that segment they need to be competitive.
Yep some people can’t let go of the past and they forgot about the Toyota stuck gas pedal, and the air bag. People can forget those problems but if it’s an American manufacture they can just never forget.
As I stated before our Tesla has been stellar through 66K miles. Designed, built, and assembled in Fremont, California from an American company. I wouldn't say it's built any better than our Mexico assembled VW or Japanese assembled Lexus, but the fit/finish and driving dynamics is better than any car we've had.
As for the Toyota acceleration issue, I'm torn and not sure what to believe. A lot of the instances were user error, two of them were incompatible floor mats, and in the end I'm not sure if there really was an issue. One thing is for certain is that the coding used in the ECUs had lines of redundant junk. As programming progressed, they didn't eliminate old code as a means to save time and money. I don't know if that compromised safety, but Toyota took the blame in front of Congress.
Regardless of what parts are used or where assembled, Japanese companies have higher quality overall because
a)Greater emphasis on quality, means the standards of the components chosen, regardless of originating country, will be higher. And the design focuses on quality.
2) the manufacturing process and manufacturing culture are taken from the culture at plants in Japan and implemented here in the U.S.
There is a reason why Lexus and Toyota consistently rank highest on reliability and dependability reports.
That’s not entirely accurate and a simplistic view of it. You do realize that Toyota implemented the Ford Production System into their company after WW2, with some tweaks of course.
If Toyota was so good why do they excel at cars but flop at trucks? That makes no logical sense....that’s because there are numerous factors that lead to all that. I could write a novel on the current state of the US auto industry and all the elements that go into it.
It’s absolutely shameful to me that the US does not look out for our own companies when it comes to competing on a global scale. (Whether it comes to trade barriers, tax rates, and so on.). Ford would be better off moving their HQ to another country, it they won’t do it....
As I stated before our Tesla has been stellar through 66K miles. Designed, built, and assembled in Fremont, California from an American company. I wouldn't say it's built any better than our Mexico assembled VW or Japanese assembled Lexus, but the fit/finish and driving dynamics is better than any car we've had.
As for the Toyota acceleration issue, I'm torn and not sure what to believe. A lot of the instances were user error, two of them were incompatible floor mats, and in the end I'm not sure if there really was an issue. One thing is for certain is that the coding used in the ECUs had lines of redundant junk. As programming progressed, they didn't eliminate old code as a means to save time and money. I don't know if that compromised safety, but Toyota took the blame in front of Congress.
And how much did you pay for your Tesla compared to your other vehicles.
I personally won’t buy GM because their vehicles simply aren’t good enough. I used to buy GM because well because my family bought GM. I eventually switched to Ford and my wife liked imports. She was a Acura/Nissan buyer. We eventually switched to Infiniti and Kia. Had very good luck with them.
I bought GM trucks for my work fleet. There were always issues. I tried a few 6.0 Fords cause I was told they’re so much better than the “ancient” 7.3s I have now. That was a grand lesson in automotive pain. I didn’t bother with the 6.4 or 6.7 diesels. I’m glad I didn’t. I don’t know if the 6.7 is good or bad today. It’s not on my list of engines to look at. Maybe they’re the best thing since sliced bread.
The 7.3L Ford engine was great for its time, but the Navistar(International)-built 6.0L that followed it was horrible. That lead to the demise of that Ford/International Blue Diamond joint venture (thank goodness) but the 6.4L, while it performed better, was still not up to par. So finally Ford came out with their own 6.7L motor which has been excellent.
Don’t forget that long time truck buyers are extreme brand loyalist.
They aren’t loyal if their trucks are breaking a lot.....geez. They are loyal because the trucks do what they need and they like them. Americans have shown they have no resistance to buying imports.
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