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Old 01-20-2011, 06:04 PM
JL
 
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Anyone think Rasheed Wallace will make first ballot? I'm a bit on the fence about him. Allen and Pierce are locks...no doubt about it.
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:09 AM
 
Location: Earth
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I don't think Rasheed gets in based on his reputation. It's the same one that's prevented Rodman from getting in.
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:50 AM
JL
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
I don't think Rasheed gets in based on his reputation. It's the same one that's prevented Rodman from getting in.
That is what i was concerned about. His reputation might have ruined his chances at least for now. It is a shame though. The guy was a very good low post scorer as well as being able to shoot the long jumper. He was a very good low post defender and weak side defender too. He tapered off in the latter years, but his play overall merits HOF. Hopefully, all his technicals and reluctance to deal with the media won't do him in.
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL View Post
That is what i was concerned about. His reputation might have ruined his chances at least for now. It is a shame though. The guy was a very good low post scorer as well as being able to shoot the long jumper. He was a very good low post defender and weak side defender too. He tapered off in the latter years, but his play overall merits HOF. Hopefully, all his technicals and reluctance to deal with the media won't do him in.
I have a feeling the latter point will work against him. I think his body of work warrants consideration, perhaps not an instant first ballot but someone who would get in 'down the line'. There's a certain amount of politics involved in the process, because no way Dennis Rodman, who's like a 5 time rebound champ, all star, defensive player of the year and 5-time NBA champ should be on the outside looking in.
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Old 01-21-2011, 02:34 PM
 
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Sorry, but there is no way "Sheed" gets in and it has ZERO to do with his attitude and here is why.

1. ZERO all-nba team selections
2. ZERO defensive team selections
3. #41 in total rebounds, #99 in points over a long career are nice but not HOF nice.

He did make 4 all-star games and has 1 championship. He was a good player that had a long career....just ZERO chance he gets in. I put him around the same level as Horace Grant. (Whom Sheed only beats in points but loses to on Defense, rebounding, rings etc.)

Rasheed Wallace NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com
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Old 01-21-2011, 02:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
I have a feeling the latter point will work against him. I think his body of work warrants consideration, perhaps not an instant first ballot but someone who would get in 'down the line'. There's a certain amount of politics involved in the process, because no way Dennis Rodman, who's like a 5 time rebound champ, all star, defensive player of the year and 5-time NBA champ should be on the outside looking in.
Rodman should get in eventually but the late start on his career leaves his TOTAL numbers weaker than others. Had he started in the NBA at 21 or 22 insteadd of 25 he'd be in by now. Personally, I think you have to consider his late entry to the NBA and the high level of play for years but then again I have a soft spot for a player that can absolutely KILL you without having the ball in their hands.

2 x defensive player, 2 all-nba selections and a ton of defensive team selections...5 rings.

One problem is that there are a lot of guys way up the rebounding list on him because they are from the "old era" and also Rodman didnt go pro until age 25 so if he'd had 3-4 more years in the NBA he'd be up around #4 or #5 all-time instead of #22.

One year for the Pistons at age 30 he averaged 9.8 pts. and 18.7 rebounds per game.
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Sorry, but there is no way "Sheed" gets in and it has ZERO to do with his attitude and here is why.

1. ZERO all-nba team selections
2. ZERO defensive team selections
3. #41 in total rebounds, #99 in points over a long career are nice but not HOF nice.
Perhaps. I can't really make a strong HOF case for him to be honest, I'm merely saying I think his career warrants some consideration. Not 'strong' consideration, and if I had a vote I wouldn't vote for him, but there's nothing to say his career doesn't at least warrant a mention in the discussion, even if briefly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Rodman should get in eventually but the late start on his career leaves his TOTAL numbers weaker than others. Had he started in the NBA at 21 or 22 insteadd of 25 he'd be in by now. Personally, I think you have to consider his late entry to the NBA and the high level of play for years but then again I have a soft spot for a player that can absolutely KILL you without having the ball in their hands.

2 x defensive player, 2 all-nba selections and a ton of defensive team selections...5 rings.

One problem is that there are a lot of guys way up the rebounding list on him because they are from the "old era" and also Rodman didnt go pro until age 25 so if he'd had 3-4 more years in the NBA he'd be up around #4 or #5 all-time instead of #22.

One year for the Pistons at age 30 he averaged 9.8 pts. and 18.7 rebounds per game.
Rodman played 14 years or thereabouts, which is a full career. I don't think the age he started is that essential in the big picture.

Here's Rodman's achievements:


Hall of fame career? Easily. Consider that his Pistons teammate Joe Dumars is in, and his career achievements aren't really any more or less than Rodman's were. In fact, I'd go as far as to say you could have plugged another good shooting guard in Dumars' spot on those Pistons teams, and they'd be as successful. Not to undermine Dumars, who was a fine player, but what Dennis Rodman did was far more indispensable, particularly the Bulls title teams.
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Cook County
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Any chance Rodmans "specialist" role hurts him like it does relief pitchers in the MLB when it comes to HOF consideration? I mean a big part of the game is scoring, and he was not proficient at that. I believe that is the line of thought of some of the voters, whether its right or wrong is another story.
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
Any chance Rodmans "specialist" role hurts him like it does relief pitchers in the MLB when it comes to HOF consideration? I mean a big part of the game is scoring, and he was not proficient at that. I believe that is the line of thought of some of the voters, whether its right or wrong is another story.
Here's my take on the whole 'specialist' thing: Rodman, as a guy who averaged 15-18 rebounds a game, is no more or less a 'specialist' than someone who can score 20 points a game but do little else. And we've seen plenty of guys like that.

18 rebound guys are a much rarer breed and I'd take a guy who can do that for me anytime over a 20ppg guy. Why? Because 20 point guys are a dime a dozen. 18 rebound guys are not. Rodman's talents happened to lie on the defensive side of the ball, which in my opinion were prolific enough to warrant HOF status without question. Not only was he the undisputed top rebounder of his time, but he was a lockdown defender at 3 positions in his prime( 2 in his later years as a Bull). There's a plethora of guys who can score 20 points and have zero impact on the outcome of a game. Dennis Rodman dramatically impacted a game with his rebounding and defense. That is a gift.
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Old 01-24-2011, 07:43 AM
 
51,928 posts, read 41,798,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Perhaps. I can't really make a strong HOF case for him to be honest, I'm merely saying I think his career warrants some consideration. Not 'strong' consideration, and if I had a vote I wouldn't vote for him, but there's nothing to say his career doesn't at least warrant a mention in the discussion, even if briefly.




Rodman played 14 years or thereabouts, which is a full career. I don't think the age he started is that essential in the big picture.

Here's Rodman's achievements:


Hall of fame career? Easily. Consider that his Pistons teammate Joe Dumars is in, and his career achievements aren't really any more or less than Rodman's were. In fact, I'd go as far as to say you could have plugged another good shooting guard in Dumars' spot on those Pistons teams, and they'd be as successful. Not to undermine Dumars, who was a fine player, but what Dennis Rodman did was far more indispensable, particularly the Bulls title teams.
I totally agree with you. My point is that had he started in the leage a couple years earlier he would be top 10 (easily) in all-time rebounds and we wouldn't even be having this discussion/.
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