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What I'm saying is that I don't see it. These numbers tell me nothing when I don't see hoards of people walking the streets, jobless. I'm not ignorant enough to think that no one is unemployed (as I know a few are on these very forums). But I'm not naive enough to believe the propaganda thrown around by all political sides and others with agendas that they want pushed for a slew of reasons.
As with any skill, profession, or past time, there's always something to be said for being able to step back from the equations, numbers, and graphs and just put your ear to the ground to get a feel for what's going on. There are too many people/companies that stand to benefit from continual doom and gloom reports...too much money to be made/stolen. The longer this thing can be dragged out, the more profit someone is making, somewhere. Sound like a conspiracy? Sure, I'll admit that. But when I look around and don't see the smoke that some folks are saying is choking us, I have to think for myself and say that maybe it's not as bad as we're being told. Maybe we're all a little too vulnerable right now because we see things that might represent "bad times" (again, not being to jump ship willy nilly when your current job isn't fun anymore...worse, businesses using these "times" as an excuse to make things crappy for employees). But things aren't always what they seem.
When I start seeing people out of work, bread lines forming, business truly slumping at retail locations (not just missing their inflated expected income levels for the quarter), then I might think there could be something real going on. For now, it's all smoke and mirrors...and I'm truly sorry for those who've been a victim of it (i.e. lost a job or business).
It's a common mistake (maybe mistake isn't the right word - ill advised?) to discount, ignore, worry, or address issues that aren't directly impacting you. If you take a completely reactive approach (as you seem to be advocating), it's more often then not too late to help the majority. You have to be proactive... You can't wait until you "see it" in action. The main crux of the issue in the housing market was that things were allowed to get out of control (ignoring key indicators) because most people took this reactive attitude.
The things pointed out in this thread are happening... you can drive through certain neighborhoods and realize it. If it's not in your backyard, it doesn't mean it isn't happening. I just want to point this out because you should feel blessed that it hasn't hit you - because I know many people at my job who were shown the door. I'm not talking kids here... 40,50 year old folks who are forced to essentially start over. Their retirement accounts were all but obliterated and now they're out looking for a job.
One reason that you don't see bread lines is because of the technology used today. Most people get foods stamps, etc.. via online and don't have to stand in line for bread or assistance. Very misleading.
Also, retail doing good? How many stores or restaurants are going to have to close before you see that the job market is horrible?
There was a thread posted on this forum that showed all of the local businesses going out of business. ( link to thread below )
This is a bit different than simply dismissing the information I presented as simply "absurd" (your words). Now that I have presented hard numbers, you have switched tact. The point I was making is the unemployment statistic presented by the government is so "absurd" that it's surprising they get away with using it. This is clear enough from their own document that I posted above.
I am not sure what point you are trying to get across aside that you subscribing to the "out of sight out of mind theory" of the state of things. i.e. if you don't directly observe it then it must not exist. I'm not sure you are doing yourself any favors with that type of argument.
I don't have blinders on...and I do get out around town. When I say "I don't see it," I'm referring to my personal experiences here in town along with the reports I hear from family and friends all over the country. What I'm "not seeing" is hoards of people laid off, holed up in their houses, not able to do anything because they don't have a job.
I agree that being proactive is dangerous. But there's also a thing called "analysis paralysis." It's when you're so scared to make a move, to make a decision, or in this case get things moving in a non-negative direction because you've got (or you think you have) tons and tons of data in your face with equally as many ways to interpret that data. In a nutshell, I'm saying that I firmly believe that because we all think things are crap and people are unemployed and this-that-and-the-other-things are all wrong, we're hindering ourselves and actually causing those things to happen (to a degree...certainly not as bad as we think they are). Because we're all scared of losing our jobs, we don't spend money. Because the stores aren't getting our money, they don't make money and have to lay people off. Because we hear of stores not making money and having to lay off some folks, we all freak out and think there are job losses and bad economic times. See where I'm going with this?
Acknowledge the fact that there are some folks out there that are jobless. It's ignorant not to. But let's not get carried away with how bad we think it is. Open our eyes and see for ourselves!
...you subscribing to the "out of sight out of mind theory" of the state of things...
Absolutely not...you couldn't be further from the mark by accusing me of having that mentality. What I'm saying is that I've looked behind the curtain and seen the real wizard, I've fanned the smoke and pushed the mirrors to the side, and I've stood smack dab in the middle of the "data pool" that is being reported on and I'm not seeing the same thing.
Maybe the numbers are accurate in the sense that they report what someone is trying to see with their equation. The problem is that everyone is taking those numbers and running with them making all sorts of "news" and predictions with them when they really aren't newsworthy nor are they that big of a deal.
I don't have blinders on...and I do get out around town. When I say "I don't see it," I'm referring to my personal experiences here in town along with the reports I hear from family and friends all over the country. What I'm "not seeing" is hoards of people laid off, holed up in their houses, not able to do anything because they don't have a job.....
It's funny you say this, because you originally chided me for what I have "heard", now this is your defense. Maybe you and your friends are well off. I hear exactly the opposite and being from the South, where I know a lot of Southerners outside of Charlotte, where it has always been tough, it's been devastating to a lot of them. If personal anecdotes mean anything that is. That's just the thing about them. They can't be disputed or argued against and such are not worth much in ways of proof of anything beyond an opinion.
The percentages, numbers out of work, foreclosures etc etc are all real. The only defence of the situation that I can see you making is that your personally don't see, hear, taste, or feel it, so it's not relevant. Opinion noted, however this really doesn't have anything to do with what I posted concerning foreclosures. If you want to address that specifically with something other than "it's absurd because you don't see it", I am willing to discuss. Else I'm done with this particular line of discussion.
I "chided" the number, not your reporting of it...which I thought I made clear. If you insist on keeping it a "you pissed in my cereal" conversation, then I guess we're through. Your tone stays the course of defending yourself and underhandedly and arrogantly assuming your post content is golden. I should have known better than to engage here and expect a civil and amicable conversation.
.... I should have known better than to engage here and expect a civil and amicable conversation.
You will certainly get this if you do the same. Calling other people or what they post "absurd" and only offering up an opinion as some sort of factual defense is not acting civil or friendly. Same for accusations of Pissing in Cereal or getting upset went someone defends themselves against this sort of thing. I could respond in kind but I won't as I will repeat my earlier statement in that if you want to address what I have actually posted, I will be glad to do so.
Please put my posts on ignore if they bother you so much. I've asked for this before.
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