Camaro Or Mustang In Chicago = Bad Idea Due To Snow & Ice? (buy, maintenance)

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

The modern Mustangs and Camaros are not muscle cars, they are RWD Tauruses and Malibus with more power and different sheet metal to make give them a "muscle car throwback" look. I'd put them one step above PT Cruisers in terms of automotive silliness. Maybe.

I have to agree with you about luxury pickup trucks and huge SUV's as well, though. All quite silly.

Where do you come up wiht this stuff? lol

So youre saying a Mustang is a Taurus with "muscle car sheetmetal"? I know youre trying to be funny, but... Theres not ONE similarity between a Mustang and a Taurus, so it was a hideous comparison to begin with. Almost as goofy as me saying "an NSX is just a 4-cylinder Accord with a different body, 2 more cylinders, 2 less doors, better suspension, and a different drivetrain layout."

[Lookout Kid]

Hah , I seem to have hit a nerve with my "glorified Taurus" comment! Maybe it's a glorified Taurus SHO? I'll give you this... I've read that the new 2015 Mustang has improved body control, and thus more "horizontal handling" than the older models. But unless he plans to buy this super spankin' brand new model, the Mustang has historically had a problem with body motion in turns. Apparently they are trying to make it more of a legitimate sports car, and the 2015 model is supposed to finally resolve some of these long-standing issues. But it's still ugly.

[Opin_Yunated]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

I almost died in a new Mustang in the winter, no joke. Sure you'd be fine to piddle around the city; take it out on the freeway in the snow and you are literally playing with your life. It swerved and slid all over the place and to this day is the most terrifying experience of my life. It's a miracle it didn't slide under a truck. It couldn't make it up the off ramp. We ended up sliding off the freeway.

I would never get back on the freeway in the winter in anything short of a 4 wd SUV, period. But that's just me.

...or you could just use winter tires.

Unless you are driving in the mountains, a good set of winter tires will get you through any winter here in the Northern United States. Drivetrain is over-emphasized. Tires are the most important factor in winter.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Hah , I seem to have hit a nerve with my "glorified Taurus" comment! Maybe it's a glorified Taurus SHO? I'll give you this... I've read that the new 2015 Mustang has improved body control, and thus more "horizontal handling" than the older models. But unless he plans to buy this super spankin' brand new model, the Mustang has historically had a problem with body motion in turns. Apparently they are trying to make it more of a legitimate sports car, and the 2015 model is supposed to finally resolve some of these long-standing issues. But it's still ugly.

Well, in all fairness, Ford did offer some track-ready 'Stangs in the past, notably the Cobra R. While most Mustangs with their live axles weren't ideal for tracks, they held their own pretty well if you ask me. The latest Mustangs were outlapping 370Z, STi, etc, at VIR, which is pretty remarkable considering they were only going up against the V6 with the Track Pack.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Hah , I seem to have hit a nerve with my "glorified Taurus" comment! Maybe it's a glorified Taurus SHO? I'll give you this... I've read that the new 2015 Mustang has improved body control, and thus more "horizontal handling" than the older models. But unless he plans to buy this super spankin' brand new model, the Mustang has historically had a problem with body motion in turns. Apparently they are trying to make it more of a legitimate sports car, and the 2015 model is supposed to finally resolve some of these long-standing issues. But it's still ugly.

Actually guys, the Taurus shares its platform with the current Volvo XC90 and prior generation Volvo V70 wagons. So it would be more correct to say that the Oak Parkers and Evanstonians driving these latter vehicles are driving glorified Tauruses, not the Mustang drivers

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

I've been driving in snow my entire life. Sure, you can walk to work in the lake, too. I choose not to. Go on a Mustang forum, it's split down the middle by gear heads and mechanics who say it's the worst car they've ever driven in the snow or it's fine.

I am not one of those people who really cares about having the skill to drive a high torque RWD car through the winter. I'll take the easy, safe way out. Macho men can load up the trunk and put on the winter tires; is rather not deal with it.

I don't know. Prior to 1975 or so, almost all cars on American roads were RWD, and they didn't have traction control, ABS or even decent tires (you used to put those knobby shoes on the back and call it a day).

Yet, somehow, our species pressed on to lead us to this day and age of soccer moms driving jacked up Tauruses as XC90s. I can also say that my FWD GTI isn't any better in snow than any of my RWD cars were. Where I think the difficulty with performance cars comes in is not so much stability on the roads but low speed stuff in deeper snow, like trying to get in and out of your alley garage for example. Though as long as you're careful with the throttle, even that's manageable.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by BRU67

It's built on the RWD Zeta platform, which isn't shared by any other GM product in North America (various Holdens use it overseas).

That Zeta platform is going away, as is the brand Holden in its entirety. The new 2017 Camaros will share the "Alpha" platform with a couple of Cadillacs. So now Cadillacs will just be glorified Chevy's.

I used to drive a Passat wagon, but was always a little disturbed that they just took a Golf platform and stretched it out. I guess that's why it never cornered like a BMW.

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

...or you could just use winter tires.

Unless you are driving in the mountains, a good set of winter tires will get you through any winter here in the Northern United States. Drivetrain is over-emphasized. Tires are the most important factor in winter.

Like I said, mechanics, engineers, gear heads disagree vehemently. Thanks for the advice stated as fact; I grew up in Michigan and have lived here for the remainder of my life, so I have driven everything from Ford Aerostars to Tempos to Bronco IIs to Taureses to a Dodge Sunfire through Midwest winters. And I and many people I know prefer an SUV. As for you, you can enjoy your snow tires.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

Like I said, mechanics, engineers, gear heads disagree vehemently. Thanks for the advice stated as fact; I grew up in Michigan and have lived here for the remainder of my life, so I have driven everything from Ford Aerostars to Tempos to Bronco IIs to Taureses to a Dodge Sunfire through Midwest winters. And I and many people I know prefer an SUV. As for you, you can enjoy your snow tires.

If you need an SUV to survive a Midwest winter in the city, thats odd. Ive known so many people with BMW 3-series that put on Blizzaks in winter and managed just fine. Heck, I knew an guy with an RX-8 that survived for years on winter tires, same goes for a coworker with a G35.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

That Zeta platform is going away, as is the brand Holden in its entirety. The new 2017 Camaros will share the "Alpha" platform with a couple of Cadillacs. So now Cadillacs will just be glorified Chevy's.

I used to drive a Passat wagon, but was always a little disturbed that they just took a Golf platform and stretched it out. I guess that's why it never cornered like a BMW.

Platform sharing is nothing new. Sh-t, a 1959 Cadillac Coupe DeVille, an American icon, rode on basically the same platform as a 1959 Chevy Biscayne. It started to become an issue in the mid/late 1970s when GM began engine sharing across the divisions, so the cars were more "badge engineered." One of the (many) things that led to GM's ultimate demise.

But done correctly, I don't think platform sharing is necessarily bad. It's a reality and without it, cars would cost a lot more. My main beef with the Camaro is it's too porky. The car is at least 500 pounds overweight and positively dwarfs a vintage first generation Camaro when parked next to one. I'm glad the Alpha platform is coming because it'll bring a lot less poundage. The Dodge Challenger needs to go on a similar diet. That thing is huge too.