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Old 06-28-2010, 04:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Originally Posted by Mike555
Now Luke 4:18 leading into it with verse 17. 'And the booK of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book, and found the place where it was written, [18] ''THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR. HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE DOWNTRODDEN, [19] TO PROCLAIM THE FAVORABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.''

At that point Jesus stopped reading because He had just fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah 61 up through Isa 61:2a. The rest of the prophecy will be fulfilled at the Second Advent of Christ.
------------------------------

Mike, I believe Jesus stopped reading there because he was foreshadowing the fact that when he went to the cross, the day of the vengeance of our God was done with! Have you ever considered that? Granted, the world is brimming full with the wrath of man which does not work righteousness. We are all led like sheep to the slaughter and for his sake killed all the day long - why? Because of the great wrath in men's hearts who have not believed in the love Christ preached to those near and those far off.

Heartsong
Jesus stopped reading because the rest of the prophecy is to be fulfilled at His Second Advent.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:33 PM
 
22,009 posts, read 16,770,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post


Please spare me your silly@ss claim of no leg to stand on.I was taught what you believe.Knew it in depth.So I don't need a rehashing of what I've known for 30 years from you.I grew out of such childishness.If you have not,then that is your issue to deal with.The Bible does not give permission to stick a 2000 year gap in the prophecy.Simple as that.Your nonsense won't change that any.That you buy into such silliness is merely due to trying to filter facts through your theology.

In short,you've proven nothing but that you are gullible enough to believe what an uneducated preacher came up with.Feel free to.But your lame interpretation is not something I feel the need to waste any more time on.If folks out there are silly enough to buy the counting of years suddenly stopping for 2000 yrs (TWO THOUSAND YEARS!) in the middle of the prophecy,and then the goofy method of counting years to make it work out and not be 6-7 years too far if the normal counting method the Jews (you know,the ones who actually made the prophecy)used was used,let them have at it.You are,I am sure, well aware that Jewish calendar does not get off by 5 days every year for 2500 years,and any honest counting would include days and months just as the Jews count,but yet it does not bother you to ignore this fact when you wish to make your belief work out.This alone says all that is needed.

The Jewish history timeline goes back what,4500 years or so?And yet we are to believe that a prophecy given in ancient Jewish history that told them 490 years from 444 BC is STILL waiting to be fulfilled?That a gap of 2000 years and counting,when the history of the Jewish nation is not much more than twice that amount of time,makes sense?LOL!
Fella, what has been shown here is the pig-headedness of people such as yourself who when faced with the facts, simply turn their backs to the truth.

I have given the timeline for the 490 years of the prophecy, and I have shown that the last 7 years of the prophecy are still future. I have further shown from several passages in the Scriptures that the Jews used a 12 month 30 day calendar adding up to a 360 day year in their prophecies. Readers need only refer back to these posts. #18, 22, and 27. Post #27 contains the timeline for the 490 years of the prophecy, and the passages about the 360 day calendar.

I have further shown from another prophecy, that there certainly can be time gaps within a prophecy. And again, I invite readers to go back and read what I said. There are only 3 posts and will not take long to read. But they contain valuable information.

There will always be people who reject the Biblical reality of dispensations and who will reject the pre-Tribulational rapture. Who will try to discredit the Scriptures and what they say about the end times. These people have no leg to stand on. Indeed they are up to their necks in quicksand.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:45 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,562,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Fella, what has been shown here is the pig-headedness of people such as yourself who when faced with the facts, simply turn their backs to the truth.

I have given the timeline for the 490 years of the prophecy, and I have shown that the last 7 years of the prophecy are still future. I have further shown from several passages in the Scriptures that the Jews used a 12 month 30 day calendar adding up to a 360 day year in their prophecies. Readers need only refer back to these posts. #18, 22, and 27. Post #27 contains the timeline for the 490 years of the prophecy, and the passages about the 360 day calendar.

I have further shown from another prophecy, that there certainly can be time gaps within a prophecy. And again, I invite readers to go back and read what I said. There are only 3 posts and will not take long to read. But they contain valuable information.

There will always be people who reject the Biblical reality of dispensations and who will reject the pre-Tribulational rapture. Who will try to discredit the Scriptures and what they say about the end times. These people have no leg to stand on. Indeed they are up to their necks in quicksand.
Fella?LOL! Fella yourself

Fella,mosey on over to the current pre trib thread and address my post #13.I would copy it here but that might be against the rules,and I don't want that one deleted.When your interpretation of Revelations is shown to be bogus,along with your mathematical manipulations,and your obvious refusal to count years like the Jews who made the prophecy did,then it is YOU without a leg to stand on.You can quote all the dispensational nonsense you want.repeating it over and over does not make it true.

You do not keep count of time like the people that the prohecy was GIVEN to do.That is a FACT.The Jewish calendar does NOT move 5 days every year across a 500 year period.This is undeniable.The Jews added months into their years,and you pretend this isn't so when you invent your bogus prophetic year.Who in the heck gives a prophecy that doesn't keep time with the calendar the people given the prophecy use?LOL!

In addition,you ignore plain writings in Revelation that say the book was written to the Christians of John's time.Again,this is undeniable.It says so.But again you ignore facts because they dismiss your silliness.

That makes you the wobbly one,not me.Fella.

The following is a primer on how the Jews actually counted years.

The twelve regular months are: Nisan (30 days), Iyar (29 days), Sivan (30 days), Tammuz (29 days), Av (30 days), Elul (29 days), Tishrei (30 days), Cheshvan (29 or 30 days), Kislev (29 or 30 days), Tevet (29 days), Shevat (30 days), and Adar (29 days). In the leap years an additional month, Adar I (30 days) is added after Shevat, and the regular Adar is referred to as "Adar II".

The first month of the festival year is Nisan. 15 Nisan is the start of the festival of Pesach, corresponding to the full moon of Nisan. Pesach is a spring festival associated with the barley harvest,[3] so the leap-month mentioned above is intercalated periodically to keep this festival in the northern hemisphere's spring season. Since the adoption of a fixed calendar, intercalations in the Hebrew calendar have been at fixed points in a 19-year cycle. Prior to this, the intercalation was determined empirically:

The year may be intercalated on three grounds: 'aviv [i.e.the ripeness of barley], fruits of trees, and the equinox. On two of these grounds it should be intercalated, but not on one of them alone.[4]

The Bible designates Nisan, which it calls Aviv (Exodus 13:4), as the first month of the year (Exodus 12:2). At the same time, the season of the fall Festival of Booths (Sukkoth), is called "the end of the year" (Exodus 23:16). The Sabbatical year in which the land was to lie fallow, necessarily began at the time the winter barley and winter wheat would have been sown, in the fall. [citation needed] The Gezer calendar, an Israelite or Canaanite inscription ca. 900 BCE, also begins in the fall.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,689,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The Jews used a 360 day calender.

The prophecy begins with the decree of Artaxerxes in response to Nehemiah's request (Neh 1:3; 2:4-8). It is this final decree that actually relates to the building and restoration of the city itself. The decree was issued either in the last month of 445 B. C. or the first month of 444 B.C. If the beginning of the prophecy, the 490 years, was 445 B.C., then using the 360 calendar, the fulfillment of the 483 years came in 33.A.D.

The Jewish calendar was 12 months of 30 days each. There was a provision of adding a 13th month after enough days had been accumulated. But in Prophecy, that 13 month is not considered. To prove that, simply look at Revelation 11:3 and 12:6, where 3 1/2 years of 360 days is confirmed by the 1260 days. 3.5 X 360 = 1260 days. And in Revelation 11:2 and 13:5, 42 months of 360 days = 1260 days.

The 490 years is divided into 3 groups.

1.) The first 49 years. Daniel 9:25 'there will be seven weeks'. 7 x 7 = 49 years.

2.) The 434 years. Daniel 9:25 'And sixty two weeks'. 7 x 62 = 432 years.

3.) The final seven years. Daniel 9:27. 1 x 7 = 7 years.

The first 49 years were fulfilled. And then the second 434 years were fulfilled. After the fulfillment of the the sixty two weeks Jesus was crucified.

Daniel 9:26 'After the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing. Remember. The first group of seven weeks were fulfilled before the second group of sixty-two weeks. It was after the fulfillment of the second group of sixty-two weeks that the Messiah was cut off. That occurred in 33 A.D using the 360 day calendar.
LOL Then the fulfillment of the messiah being cut off was during the last week.... but you have it that the last week has yet to start.... What does Dan. 9:26 say... you didn't list it.

Dan. 9:26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed...

Apparently the end comes like a REALLY SLOW flood.... and the times of peace since then are just illusory.

REALLY? You honestly think this adds up correctly?
What happens to the missing 257.25 days? Where do those days go? That is nearly a year missing in the prophecy in REAL days per year....

Is that the first day of the 50th week?

You do realize that this would be laughed out of any serious mathematics study... right?
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:19 PM
 
11,291 posts, read 11,309,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Readers, don't let people like the above poster confuse or discourage you. The Scriptures are perfectly clear that the church is to be raptured and that there will be a seven year period which precedes the second coming of Christ.
Straight out of the Hal Lindsey "Handbook on How to Dupe Gullible Christians and Get Rich in the Process".

Quote:
There will always be people who reject the Biblical reality of dispensations and who will reject the pre-Tribulational rapture. Who will try to discredit the Scriptures and what they say about the end times. These people have no leg to stand on. Indeed they are up to their necks in quicksand.
Meanwhile we'll all grow old and gray together watching as date after date for the rapture come and go.

Last edited by thrillobyte; 06-28-2010 at 05:27 PM..
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:56 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 25,005,405 times
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Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Meanwhile we'll all grow old and gray together watching as date after date for the rapture come and go.
As will your children, and your children's children, ............ for many many generations
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:55 PM
 
22,009 posts, read 16,770,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
LOL Then the fulfillment of the messiah being cut off was during the last week.... but you have it that the last week has yet to start.... What does Dan. 9:26 say... you didn't list it.
From Post #27 at the very bottom.

Daniel 9:26 'After the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing. Remember. The first group of seven weeks were fulfilled before the second group of sixty-two weeks. It was after the fulfillment of the second group of sixty-two weeks that the Messiah was cut off. That occurred in 33 A.D using the 360 day calendar.



Quote:
Dan. 9:26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed...

Apparently the end comes like a REALLY SLOW flood.... and the times of peace since then are just illusory.
Daniel 9:26 ...the end will come like a flood: War will contnue until the end, and desolatins have been decreed...'' This refers to the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem. In 70 A.D.

Verse 27 then jumps to the Tribulation which is still future. It has not been fulfilled yet.

Quote:
REALLY? You honestly think this adds up correctly?
What happens to the missing 257.25 days? Where do those days go? That is nearly a year missing in the prophecy in REAL days per year....

Is that the first day of the 50th week?

You do realize that this would be laughed out of any serious mathematics study... right?
As I have shown in post #27, prophecy uses the 30 day, 12 month, 360 day year calendar in calculating the dates. There was a provision that allowed for a 13th month to be added to the calendar when enough days had been accumulated. But the 13th month is never used in prophecy. Therefore, you are to think in terms of 360 day years with regard to the prophecies.


The last week or seven years is separated from the other 483 years by the entire chuch-age. As I made clear, Jesus was crucified in 33 A.D after the completion of the 483 years. The last 7 years are the Tribulation which will occur after the church has been raptured. Both the crucifixion and the destruction of Jerusalem occurred between the fulfillment of the 483 years and the commencment of the last seven years, which again, is still future.

See posts # 18, 22, and 27.
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:42 PM
 
22,009 posts, read 16,770,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
Fella?LOL! Fella yourself

Fella,mosey on over to the current pre trib thread and address my post #13.I would copy it here but that might be against the rules,and I don't want that one deleted.When your interpretation of Revelations is shown to be bogus,along with your mathematical manipulations,and your obvious refusal to count years like the Jews who made the prophecy did,then it is YOU without a leg to stand on.You can quote all the dispensational nonsense you want.repeating it over and over does not make it true.

You do not keep count of time like the people that the prohecy was GIVEN to do.That is a FACT.The Jewish calendar does NOT move 5 days every year across a 500 year period.This is undeniable.The Jews added months into their years,and you pretend this isn't so when you invent your bogus prophetic year.Who in the heck gives a prophecy that doesn't keep time with the calendar the people given the prophecy use?LOL!
Again. Revelation 11:2,3 and 12:6; 13:5; all confirm by the use of 1260 days and relating to 42 months and 3 1/2 years, that prophecy uses a 30 day 12 month 360 day calendar.

As I have said twice now, the Jews had a provision to add a 13 month to the calendar when enough days had accumulated. But that 13th month was never used in prophecy. All anyone need do is to simply go to the Revelation passages listed and they see for themselves that a 360 day year is used for prophecy. 1260 days is 3 1/2 years of 30 day months. 30 (days) x 42 (months) = 1260 days.


Quote:
In addition,you ignore plain writings in Revelation that say the book was written to the Christians of John's time.Again,this is undeniable.It says so.But again you ignore facts because they dismiss your silliness.

That makes you the wobbly one,not me.Fella.
The book of Revelation has three main divisions. John was commanded in Rev. 1:19 to write about 1) things past, ''the things which you have seen,'' (the Patmos vision, Rev 1:1-20); 2) things present, ''the things which are,'' (the existing churches, Rev 2:1-3:22); and 3) things future, ''the things which shall take place after these things,'' ( events after the Church-age ends, Rev. 4:1-22:5). Beginning in chapter 4, Revelation is about future events.

Quote:
The following is a primer on how the Jews actually counted years.

The twelve regular months are: Nisan (30 days), Iyar (29 days), Sivan (30 days), Tammuz (29 days), Av (30 days), Elul (29 days), Tishrei (30 days), Cheshvan (29 or 30 days), Kislev (29 or 30 days), Tevet (29 days), Shevat (30 days), and Adar (29 days). In the leap years an additional month, Adar I (30 days) is added after Shevat, and the regular Adar is referred to as "Adar II".

The first month of the festival year is Nisan. 15 Nisan is the start of the festival of Pesach, corresponding to the full moon of Nisan. Pesach is a spring festival associated with the barley harvest,[3] so the leap-month mentioned above is intercalated periodically to keep this festival in the northern hemisphere's spring season. Since the adoption of a fixed calendar, intercalations in the Hebrew calendar have been at fixed points in a 19-year cycle. Prior to this, the intercalation was determined empirically:

The year may be intercalated on three grounds: 'aviv [i.e.the ripeness of barley], fruits of trees, and the equinox. On two of these grounds it should be intercalated, but not on one of them alone.[4]

The Bible designates Nisan, which it calls Aviv (Exodus 13:4), as the first month of the year (Exodus 12:2). At the same time, the season of the fall Festival of Booths (Sukkoth), is called "the end of the year" (Exodus 23:16). The Sabbatical year in which the land was to lie fallow, necessarily began at the time the winter barley and winter wheat would have been sown, in the fall. [citation needed] The Gezer calendar, an Israelite or Canaanite inscription ca. 900 BCE, also begins in the fall.
Again, with regard to prophecy, simply go to the Revelation passages listed in the first part of this post and see that a 360 day year is used with regard to prophesy. It's right in front of you.

The 490 years of Daniels prophecy use a 360 day yearly calendar. The first 483 years have been fulfilled. The last 7 years are still in the future and belong to the Tribulation, which takes place after the church has been raptured.
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Again. Revelation 11:2,3 and 12:6; 13:5; all confirm by the use of 1260 days and relating to 42 months and 3 1/2 years, that prophecy uses a 30 day 12 month 360 day calendar.

As I have said twice now, the Jews had a provision to add a 13 month to the calendar when enough days had accumulated. But that 13th month was never used in prophecy. All anyone need do is to simply go to the Revelation passages listed and they see for themselves that a 360 day year is used for prophecy. 1260 days is 3 1/2 years of 30 day months. 30 (days) x 42 (months) = 1260 days.






The book of Revelation has three main divisions. John was commanded in Rev. 1:19 to write about 1) things past, ''the things which you have seen,'' (the Patmos vision, Rev 1:1-20); 2) things present, ''the things which are,'' (the existing churches, Rev 2:1-3:22); and 3) things future, ''the things which shall take place after these things,'' ( events after the Church-age ends, Rev. 4:1-22:5). Beginning in chapter 4, Revelation is about future events.



Again, with regard to prophecy, simply go to the Revelation passages listed in the first part of this post and see that a 360 day year is used with regard to prophesy. It's right in front of you.

The 490 years of Daniels prophecy use a 360 day yearly calendar. The first 483 years have been fulfilled. The last 7 years are still in the future and belong to the Tribulation, which takes place after the church has been raptured.
The part you don't seem able to grasp is that what applies over a short period,IOW 3 1/2 years,is not yet enough days off to be adding a month yet.There is NO such thing as a prophetic year.It is a bogus invention of end timers who can't bear to face facts.Jewish history is firm in that when you get into periods of years long enough to throw the seasons off you add a month.The fact that you try to turn the Bible using a 360 day year for periods of 3 or 4 years as an OK to refuse to add the extra month for 500 years is laughable.Or dishonest.Probably both.Certainly it is not the way the Jewish writers counted over the decades.

But again,don't let verifiable facts of history get in your way.Invent whatever BS you think is needed.You are only fooling yourselves.Most of the world sees it for the nonsense,the laughable nonsense,that it is.Those willing to be duped deserve the fate of the gullible.They are by and large the same crowd that sends it's money to the televangelists,so we can see the quality of their intellect right there.
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:27 PM
 
22,009 posts, read 16,770,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
The part you don't seem able to grasp is that what applies over a short period,IOW 3 1/2 years,is not yet enough days off to be adding a month yet.There is NO such thing as a prophetic year.It is a bogus invention of end timers who can't bear to face facts.Jewish history is firm in that when you get into periods of years long enough to throw the seasons off you add a month.The fact that you try to turn the Bible using a 360 day year for periods of 3 or 4 years as an OK to refuse to add the extra month for 500 years is laughable.Or dishonest.Probably both.Certainly it is not the way the Jewish writers counted over the decades.

But again,don't let verifiable facts of history get in your way.Invent whatever BS you think is needed.You are only fooling yourselves.Most of the world sees it for the nonsense,the laughable nonsense,that it is.Those willing to be duped deserve the fate of the gullible.They are by and large the same crowd that sends it's money to the televangelists,so we can see the quality of their intellect right there.
In your frustration, you are starting to sound like that other poster who is currently attacking the rapture on this forum, I have never even brought up extra months as a part of the prophecy. I have said the extra months are not used in prophecy. All you need to concern yourself with is the 360 day calendar that is used for prophecy. It's right there in the Scriptures.

I have shown you from the Revelation passages that the prophetic year is a 360 day year. And anyone who will simply look at the passages will immediately see that. I have already shown that the 490 years of Daniels prophecy is calculated using the 360 day calendar.

The 3 1/2 years that you are complaining about are half of the last 7 years of Daniels prophecy. The 3 1/2 years mentioned in Revelation 11:2,3; 12:6; 13:5 are half of the 7 year Tribulation period which is the last 7 years of the 490 years of Daniels prophecy. It is that simple.
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