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If everyone is allowed into heaven as UR supposes, then heaven would eventually become contaminated like the earth; that would be no heaven at all, as it would be more of the same. But, guess what? Only the holy and righteous will enter heaven, and sinners will be shut out. If you are bound by even just one willful sin, you won't be entering heaven. If you don't believe me, look at what happened to Adam and Eve's paradise; it was stripped from them just as God had warned. But, the devil will say, "ye shall not surely die". Go ahead, listen to that liar, but you'll damn your soul.
Really? Just where does it say only the righteous will enter heaven?
I think you are thinking of the New City Jerusalem. That is only for that final eon/age.
When all mankind are are finally saved, the bible does not say they are in heaven. They might be. But it just doesn't say. But it does say they will be saved and they all . . . yes all mankind will be made RIGHTEOUS (Romans 5:18,19).
So, scgraham, how can any unrighteous be in heaven since all mankind will be made righteous?
I don't deny the "inner demons," but again, they can take comfort in one thing - it will ULTIMATELY be okay for them in the end. So why fight the struggle to indulge in the dark side that keeps calling. Why fight to be what they can't maintain? Why wake up from the drunk drug induced slumber that numbs and masks the pain? It will ALL pass and when you wake up on the other side, a temporary course of embarrassment and shame and from there, it's an eternity of bliss.
What most people do not either realize or admit to is that everyone finds their own reasonings for anything they do.
The Christians who think you can lose your salvation wrangle scripture so that they can think scripture supports what they have reasoned to believe.
The ones who think they have no control over what they do have wrangled scripture so that it supports what they have reasoned to believe.
All side of the equation often accuse the other side through empty meaningless assertions.
Moderator cut: rude.
In reality everyone can find a reason to live life carefree and get out of it all you can and live anyway you want, because in the end that is exactly what everyone does. Everyone lives exactly the way they have chosen to live, whether it be not doing something out of fear, or just because it never interested them to do it. Everyone has done something, whether they ever admit it to another soul or not that steps outside the boundaries of what they believe should be done.
A damnation believer knows good and well that they have rationalized something against their belief system that they have never felt sorry for, everyone has because that is what humans do.
What reasonings does an atheist have to not live a life of debauchery and party livin, hey when ya die your just gone so live it up.
Yet, from ALL walks of life there are people who live clean and decent lives and mostly fromn a simple common sense point of view of the belief of actions and consequenses.
When it comes down to it is this.
I simply believe that if there is a God, then he's gonna work everything out the way he wants to do it, you can believe or not believe, you can rationalize a 1000 different scenarios and belief system and IF there is a GOD there isn't a damn thing athiest or fry hard that is going to be able
to do anything about it.
The idea that we must live a certain way to appease this God or simply not believe in any God is all just the way everyone makes themsevles feel better about life.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 03-04-2011 at 03:06 PM..
Reason: "fryhards" ?
Why wake up from the drunk drug induced slumber of carnality that is destroying you?
Because at a certain point you reach rock bottom. At a certain point only one of two things can happen:
1. you will die
2. you no longer want to stay in the drunk drug induced slumber of carnality
In some ways this is the point. We are learning to hate the carnality. At a certain point, things get so bad, that you want to change and you finally do overcome the bad, and then you no longer want to live the selfish indulgent lifestyle anymore. We see examples of this in real life. Addicts get so bad that they either die, or they have a life changing moment and now have the drive to get clean.
In fact knowing that things will be ok in the end can actually be a positive force to bring you out of that dark place. No one wants to stay living in a gutter sleeping in your own puke forever (figuratively or not).
The good news is not that you can stay in your drunk drug induced slumber forever.
The good news is that it will end sometime.
Some people just want to die. In fact, some people kill themselves with the idea in their head that they are going to wake up in heaven. In the UR universe, that is bascially what is going to happen it seems. Die, get it over with and wait for god to slap some righteousness on you. I mean, I don't mean to be facetious, but that end result is what I see would determine how people live NOW if they don't mind a little shame along the way.
Some people just want to die. In fact, some people kill themselves with the idea in their head that they are going to wake up in heaven. In the UR universe, that is bascially what is going to happen it seems. Die, get it over with and wait for god to slap some righteousness on you. I mean, I don't mean to be facetious, but that end result is what I see would determine how people live NOW if they don't mind a little shame along the way.
I guess I'm not quite understanding you here.
Are you saying that if people beileved UR they would determine that they should go drink and party themselves into a stupor and then ultimately commit suicide?!?
Or are you saying if you believe in UR you may as well end it all so you get it over with and go straight to heaven?
I would say that such a person is missing the point.
I'm not into hypotheticals - I believe God wants a real relationship with each person, and that Christ is the only way (path), truth (), and life (not the natural life people think "heaven" is).
I believe spirit life is just that - spiritual. This thread is full of comparisons between the "afterlife" and this present world - I believe it's totally otherwise. Mansions are not natural houses, neither is God's relationship with us. We're only comparing natural things with spiritual, and that's going to lead you astray every time.
Universalism" seems to be the modern "heresy" threatening traditional Christendom
universalism doesn't not threaten true Christianity or biblical faith, however it threatens the power of the clergy, of those who make much money in a selfish manner with the fear of hell and the promise of paradise
for 1000 years, "traditional Christendom" was Catholicism, I think most protestants would agree that it is from the devil while Catholics consider Martin Luther e.g. a heretic.
what many people consider "traditional Christendom" might very well be the heresy itself
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I'm probably confused over what you meant.
), and life (not the natural life people think "heaven" is). 