God warns about the anti-christ cult messages that will dwell within Christianity (Apostle Paul, members)
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You are equipping yourself well, Pleroo . . . but no one knows better than you what a daunting obstacle you face in trying to penetrate the indoctrination of fundamentalism.
Indeed, the Spirit leaps in this physical womb born of water.
You are equipping yourself well, Pleroo . . . but no one knows better than you what a daunting obstacle you face in trying to penetrate the indoctrination of fundamentalism.
I just like the exercise once in a while.
The answer is simple, imo: Trust God. I know I can trust God because of who God is: LOVE ... and love never fails. Everything else follows and flows from that. That's the Christ spirit/witness, I believe. Anything which doesn't fit with that message is anti-Christ.
Do you trust what you KNOW of god from your personal relationship with him or do you need an old book to help you decide when to love your neighbor or forgive your enemy?
The WORD of god is his message not the book.. Like a math book (also fallible), the bible is useful for instruction... Not a guide for you to use to justify erroneous thoughts on god.
I can and do trust my own connection with god and don't need hearsay to validate that.
It is the Antichrist message that you must take the bible Literally and that you cannot trust your own spirit of truth given by god as a believer.
It is too bad you see it as either, - or issue (either relationship or Bible). I am happy to say I have both. YOU ARE a believer of your own thoughts and emotions, and since your thoughts are not in sync with the Bible, you have no other choise but to denounce the Bible as being wrong. You are right and the Bible is wrong, and that is walking on thin ice.
God knows the human heart, including yours.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
That was the Bad News. The Gospel is the Good News that Christ brought to us. Retaining the contradictory beliefs about God that are in the OT corrupts Christ's clear and unambiguous message. It requires herculean rationalizations, excuses and proclamations of "God's ways are not our ways" and similar dissembling to pretend that they are not contradictory. I realize that your entire faith is based on the belief that the Bible MUST be inerrant as you interpret it and those who taught you interpret it. IT is NOT, period. That in no way undermines or makes void what Christ accomplished for us all in His love. You revere ANYTHING other than God at your own peril.. Christ unambiguously commanded us to "love God and each other," period . . . not a Bible (which did not exist). All NT references to the Word of God are to Christ and His words . . . NOT the OT scriptures. They have a different role when properly divided. The use of Biblean is not derogatory . . . it is intended to differentiate Christianity and the message of Christ from Bibleanity and the Bible literalist's message of Jehovah. The messages are contradictory and I follow Christ's.[/quote]
Now you know this is not true. Already in Genesis 3:15 God is effectively proclaiming the Gospel, declaring Christ's vicory over Satan.
There is such a considerable number of references in the New Testament to Scripture being fulfilled with regard to Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:3,4 tells us the following:
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
We read in Romans 1:1,2:
1 "Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures,"
Another interesting and important reference is in Gal 3:8
"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed" (quoting from Genesis).
You remember when Jesus spoke to the two who were on the road to Emmaus (in Luke 24). At one point in their conversation He declared to them v.26 "Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (See also verses 45-47).
There is entirely too much to reference for a posting within a thread. Throughout the gospels Jesus would proclaim, "It is written...". I think we should stop here for now, as these postings can become long.
I also wish to thank you for your clarification of the use of the term, "Biblean". I wasn't sure if it was meant to be derogatory. But we really do not have to separate the two. A Christian is one who has come under the hearing of the Gospel as contained in the Bible. I see the Bible as completely identified with Christ, as Christ and the Gospel are its central message.
Now you know this is not true. Already in Genesis 3:15 God is effectively proclaiming the Gospel, declaring Christ's vicory over Satan.
There is such a considerable number of references in the New Testament to Scripture being fulfilled with regard to Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:3,4 tells us the following:
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
We read in Romans 1:1,2:
1 "Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures,"
Another interesting and important reference is in Gal 3:8
"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed" (quoting from Genesis).
You remember when Jesus spoke to the two who were on the road to Emmaus (in Luke 24). At one point in their conversation He declared to them v.26 "Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (See also verses 45-47).
There is entirely too much to reference for a posting within a thread. Throughout the gospels Jesus would proclaim, "It is written...". I think we should stop here for now, as these postings can become long.
I also wish to thank you for your clarification of the use of the term, "Biblean". I wasn't sure if it was meant to be derogatory. But we really do not have to separate the two. A Christian is one who has come under the hearing of the Gospel as contained in the Bible. I see the Bible as completely identified with Christ, as Christ and the Gospel are its central message.
The words of Jesus are way to inconvenient for them to accept as the truth.
It is too bad you see it as either, - or issue (either relationship or Bible). I am happy to say I have both. YOU ARE a believer of your own thoughts and emotions, and since your thoughts are not in sync with the Bible, you have no other choise but to denounce the Bible as being wrong. You are right and the Bible is wrong, and that is walking on thin ice.
God knows the human heart, including yours.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Actually I said: the bible is useful for instruction
So your misrepresentation is an obvious ad hominem.
You didnt answer the question I posed regarding what you trust, so you attack the person. The bible is not inerrant as established fact. What you are saying about me is deceitful and doesn't help any argument you might have.
So we are back to... A personal relationship with god implies you KNOW without need of any books, what a creator would or wouldn't do.
You believe that creator will burn forever those who don't profess allegiance in a certain frame of time. Your understanding of god is very limited apparently.
The Antichrist message is that a personal relationship should conform to the book of primitive (comparatively) writings of men.
Perhaps some compelling evidence or reason can be shown as to why one shouldn't trust their own relationship with that creator over the bible.
But of course you failed to do so and attacked the poster instead.
Maybe there is someone else who can present evidence?
For clarity, the question again is:
Why should a person, who has a personal relationship with god, distrust their own knowledge of him within and trust [interpretation of] the bible instead?
Actually I said: the bible is useful for instruction
All of it?
This statement is not in sync with the things you said earlier, or what you say later in this post of yours.
Quote:
So your misrepresentation is an obvious ad hominem.
You didnt answer the question I posed regarding what you trust, so you attack the person. The bible is not inerrant as established fact. What you are saying about me is deceitful and doesn't help any argument you might have.
What personal attack? Yes, I did answer your question.
Quote:
You believe that creator will burn forever those who don't profess allegiance in a certain frame of time. Your understanding of god is very limited apparently.
Just because I don't agree with your alternative view, does not make my view limited.
Quote:
The Antichrist message is that a personal relationship should conform to the book of primitive (comparatively) writings of men.
Are we talking about the same book which you consider good for instruction? See, I'm not buying your statements, when they change even within the same post.
Quote:
Perhaps some compelling evidence or reason can be shown as to why one shouldn't trust their own relationship with that creator over the bible.
Are we talking about the same book which you consider good for instruction?
Quote:
But of course you failed to do so and attacked the poster instead.
How were you "attacked"? I don't even know what you are talking about.
Quote:
For clarity, the question again is:
Why should a person, who has a personal relationship with god, distrust their own knowledge of him within and trust [interpretation of] the bible instead?
Because it contains the words of God and truth about God, and when your "knowledge" is the opposite of the the word of God, then you might want to consider the possiblity that your understanding is off. See, the Bible is good not only for instruction, but also for reproof. You can use it to make sure your "knowledge" is correct. It can also be used to correction. You could use some of that, since you have taken to trust your own emotions as opposed to the word of God
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness
This statement is not in sync with the things you said earlier, or what you say later in this post of yours.
What personal attack? Yes, I did answer your question.
Just because I don't agree with your alternative view, does not make my view limited.
Are we talking about the same book which you consider good for instruction? See, I'm not buying your statements, when they change even within the same post.
Are we talking about the same book which you consider good for instruction?
How were you "attacked"? I don't even know what you are talking about.
Because it contains the words of God and truth about God, and when your "knowledge" is the opposite of the the word of God, then you might want to consider the possiblity that your understanding is off. See, the Bible is good not only for instruction, but also for reproof. You can use it to make sure your "knowledge" is correct. It can also be used to correction. You could use some of that, since you have taken to trust your own emotions as opposed to the word of God
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness
My question is and has been... Do you trust your own knowledge of the god you have a personal relationship with?
You didn't and haven't proven that the bible is MORE TRUSTWORTHY than a personal relationship with god and their knowledge of him through that relationship.
The fact is: the bible has been found in error. Just as a math book with an error, you don't need to stop using it for instruction.
If you have a problem trusting your inner knowledge of god, don't project that on others.
Just answer the question...address the problem of why a 2000 year old book should be more trustworthy than a personal knowledge stemming from a personal relationship.
The Gospel has nothing to do with the OT. That was the Bad News. .
There is a lot of Gospel in the OT.....oh that's right, Jesus was just being primitive when he said that the OT testifies about him and he came to fullfil the OT.
My question is and has been... Do you trust your own knowledge of the god you have a personal relationship with?
You didn't and haven't proven that the bible is MORE TRUSTWORTHY than a personal relationship with god and their knowledge of him through that relationship.
The fact is: the bible has been found in error. Just as a math book with an error, you don't need to stop using it for instruction.
If you have a problem trusting your inner knowledge of god, don't project that on others.
Just answer the question...address the problem of why a 2000 year old book should be more trustworthy than a personal knowledge stemming from a personal relationship.
I would rather trust the scriptures as Jesus did when he went about fulfilling and quoting the OT did than the alternative .... feelings and a lot of hot air ... which you have yet to prove either.
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