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Just thought you might like to know... there is NO Satan, Devil, Lucifer, or fallen Angels. Once an Angel, always an Angel, because their choice is not only to Love, it is of the Highest and Holiest of Loves. It is the Essence of God... His Divine Love, which every Angel possesses to a degree which makes them Divine and immortal. No one who is without this Essence will ever step one foot into God's highest Heavens... the Celestial Heavens.
From Jesus' True Teachings:
"The book that you read is a snare and a lie, for there are no angels who have become devils as the author of that book declares. Never were there any angels who through ambition or any other reason revolted against the power of government of God, and thereby lost their estate as angels. Never was there any Lucifer, and never were there any angels who were thrown from the battlements of heaven into hell, as it has been written and as I told you before, there are no devils and no Satan considered as real persons and fallen angels."
There are no devils and no satan (http://tinyurl.com/3qtrg86 - broken link)
The reason I feel that evil is allowed to exist for a season, is to spiritually challenge us to growth. It is only by resisting and overcoming the NEGATIVE ENERGY that we grow spiritually...in the same way that the brain can develop great intelligence when it is very stimulated and challenged in a child's youth...or the way that certain populations of organisms respond to environmental pressures and stimuli.
In Physics..it is said that an object that gets somewhat close to a BLACK HOLE, but then escapes its gravity leaves with a SURPLUS OF ENERGY.
Christ said in Matthew 5:46 that "if you only love those that love you...where is your reward?"
That one statement by Christ shows that we cannot have a treasure in heaven, except by raising our spiritual vibration against the evil. If we can LOVE in spite of the evil, and in spite of the negativity that is pulling us down..we grow. It is a difficult challenge. Without this challenge, and similar challenges in overcoming the density of matter in general, there would be no impetus for growth. We are incarnated here to do Spiritual Work..and then we have The Lord, our rest.
So in a way, ironically, Satan is God's slave. It's all for God, though Satan still wants to do his own Will..and is allowed to for a time. He is bound up and loosed according to a pattern.
There is a dynamic of forces at work in the universe..which is really ORDER (Good) and CHAOS (Evil) that results in the created form of all things. Without that interplay, life as we know it would not, and could not, exist.
(BTW: I don't have any problem with someone quoting something from other than The Bible..and I appreciate all perspectives..but just wondering...where does that "Jesus's True Teachings" deal originate from? The concept that there is a Heaven, but not a Hell seems pretty idealistic too.)
Initial OP question (before sidetrack) is an interesting one that has been asked throughout the ages by God-seeking people. In the overall context of our loving, yet, all powerful/knowing God, the answer is not all that complicated: God allows it because He loves us and seeks a genuine love-based relationship with us. While we do not fully understand 'why' God loves the man He created in this way, ...scripture fully supports this principle.
Consider this: Alternatives/choices must exist in order to truly have love (or loving relationship). One cannot simply demand true love from a position of power and/or if one simply loves 'blindly' in dutiful, submissive obeissance ... is it really love? The same principle holds true throughout creation: Can light truly exist without darkness?; Can good exist without evil? Can truth exist without lies? Thus, this entire world, including time itself, has been created by God for our benefit, to bring about the true love-based choices He desires.
BUT, rather than simply allow Satan to run roughshod over creation, God has placed limits on what he can and cannot do. For one thing, Satan is allowed to use lies and deceit to deceive mankind, but, he has no authority to force people to do anything (much less, disobey or renounce God). In that sense, the authority Satan establishes over human lives, is the authority that people allow! On balance, God likewise, will not force anyone to obey, trust, love or follow Him ... even though that is His desire and the purpose of our creation and existence.
One final thing, Satan is God's creation (created for God's purpose). He is not God's enemy and has no authority or power to oppose God. However, Satan hates God and is the sworn enemy of mankind ... using every deceitful lie in his power to destroy the eternal souls of mankind.
Great post!! REP!
You make many very interesting points. Further to your point about free will...free will is necessary IN ORDER TO HAVE LOVE. Because , as you were saying, if you force someone to love you through control, it is no longer love.
It is all designed this way, with free will, because it is the only way that something special like this can be created!
It is high time we get passed this ignorant ancient belief in satan (devil, lucifer, etc.)...there is NO SUCH THING. When people actually come to the realization that satan is nothing more than the egoic/carnal mind most humans live through...they will then be enabled to control it and live the way Jesus, as well as many others, taught us to live.
I would be inclined to agree with you out of idealism..but when you really look into the history of the Secret Societies and some of the dark stuff that has gone on (and especially in rock and roll, which i know some things about)...it seems to suggest otherwise.
Are there evil spirits in Hell? Yep, as sure as the sun rises and sets, but there is no Commander in Chief of Hell, who is leading the evil spirit brigade. It doesn't do anybody any good to believe in this whopper, as it's a false belief and needs to be eradicated from this earth.
Agreed. While there are plenty of shaytans (evil spirits, evil Jinn, evil humans etc) running around and offering us temptation. It is still the One God(swt) who rules. The shaytans have no power except what we give them. We have free choice, our own desires if we follow temptations. We can not get by with the excuse "The Devil made me do it."
The reason I feel that evil is allowed to exist for a season, is to spiritually challenge us to growth.
Then why was Jesus protected from it? Then why is punishment and torture the guaranteed end game who don't meet that challenge? Besides, in a perfect world, you would think such problems shouldn't exist, much less the God getting overly angry and trying to fix it all, going all out literally wiping out everything as necessary?
Then why was Jesus protected from it? Then why is punishment and torture the guaranteed end game who don't meet that challenge? Besides, in a perfect world, you would think such problems shouldn't exist, much less the God getting overly angry and trying to fix it all?
Jesus Christ is already at that level of perfection...per Hebrews 13:8, where it says "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."
But actually, Christ WAS challenged by Satan at a certain point in his life (in the wilderness).
I agree that eternal torment is wrong for finite sins...and by Christ preaching to the souls in Hell (1 Peter 3:19), it shows that imprisonment in hell is not eternal, though the fires of chaos therein do continue to burn. Gehenna actually meant "garbage dump," so Christ was warning us against ruining our souls by being trapped in carnal desires and their consequences. When we lose our spiritual vibration, this is what happens.
I don't believe in the concept that God sends us to hell to burn forever. That is not at all part of my belief system. I believe that we can be our own worst enemy, and land ourselves there, if we are not careful, however.
Then why was Jesus protected from it? Then why is punishment and torture the guaranteed end game who don't meet that challenge? Besides, in a perfect world, you would think such problems shouldn't exist, much less the God getting overly angry and trying to fix it all, going all out literally wiping out everything as necessary?
1- Jesus wasn't protected from it. He died innocently because of evil people who set him up.
2- It's not a challenge. All will fail on their own. Only those spiritually related to Christ will avoid punishment.
3- The world is not perfect. It was perfect until the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was eaten from - then corruption entered the world.
Agreed. While there are plenty of shaytans (evil spirits, evil Jinn, evil humans etc) running around and offering us temptation. It is still the One God(swt) who rules. The shaytans have no power except what we give them. We have free choice, our own desires if we follow temptations. We can not get by with the excuse "The Devil made me do it."
The reason I feel that evil is allowed to exist for a season, is to spiritually challenge us to growth. It is only by resisting and overcoming the NEGATIVE ENERGY that we grow spiritually...in the same way that the brain can develop great intelligence when it is very stimulated and challenged in a child's youth...or the way that certain populations of organisms respond to environmental pressures and stimuli.
In Physics..it is said that an object that gets somewhat close to a BLACK HOLE, but then escapes its gravity leaves with a SURPLUS OF ENERGY.
Christ said in Matthew 5:46 that "if you only love those that love you...where is your reward?"
That one statement by Christ shows that we cannot have a treasure in heaven, except by raising our spiritual vibration against the evil. If we can LOVE in spite of the evil, and in spite of the negativity that is pulling us down..we grow. It is a difficult challenge. Without this challenge, and similar challenges in overcoming the density of matter in general, there would be no impetus for growth. We are incarnated here to do Spiritual Work..and then we have The Lord, our rest.
So in a way, ironically, Satan is God's slave. It's all for God, though Satan still wants to do his own Will..and is allowed to for a time. He is bound up and loosed according to a pattern.
There is a dynamic of forces at work in the universe..which is really ORDER (Good) and CHAOS (Evil) that results in the created form of all things. Without that interplay, life as we know it would not, and could not, exist.
(BTW: I don't have any problem with someone quoting something from other than The Bible..and I appreciate all perspectives..but just wondering...where does that "Jesus's True Teachings" deal originate from? The concept that there is a Heaven, but not a Hell seems pretty idealistic too.)
Thank you for your very nice post. There is a Hell, just as there is a Heaven... and actually, there are two Heavens. One Heaven is the highest, the Celestial Heaven where only those who possess God's Divine Love inhabit... and the Heaven below it is for those spirits whose souls have been purified by the natural love.
God didn't create Hell, but rather it exists because of the condition of darkness in people's souls. And this darkness is caused by sins that we commit over a lifetime. There are many planes in Hell and this goes to degrees of darkness. There is no Devil, fire or brimstone and it isn't eternal. What happens to these spirits is that they are compelled to "reap what they have sown," and are under the operation of the Law of Compensation where they must pay back to the last farthing for their sins... and the definition of sin is a violation of God's Law of Love.
Make no mistake, we do not need a ying and a yang for this world to function properly... all we need is God's Divine Love to be possessed in every human being's soul and we would have Heaven on earth and be blissfully happy and "mine" would become "thine," as it is God's Will that this be done.
"Jesus' True Teachings" are his spirit writings through a medium James E. Padgett from 1914 to 1923. He had attempted many times throughout the years to bring his teachings to light, since what is contained in the Bible is not altogether accurate, as his true teachings were lost about 150 years after his passing into the spirit world. If anybody is interested to read four volumes, "True Gospel Revealed Anew by Jesus," which is available at amazon, I highly recommend it. These messages are so profound and awesome... and if you follow what he writes... to pray to God for a soul awakening to receive God's Greatest Gift... His Divine Love... you will receive it and become a true follower of Jesus.
A collection of messages can be read here on my friend's website:
But actually, Christ WAS challenged by Satan at a certain point in his life (in the wilderness).
Was this God's plan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses
I agree that eternal torment is wrong for finite sins...and by Christ preaching to the souls in Hell (1 Peter 3:19), it shows that imprisonment in hell is not eternal, though the fires of chaos therein do continue to burn. Gehenna actually meant "garbage dump," so Christ was warning us against ruining our souls by being trapped in carnal desires and their consequences. When we lose our spiritual vibration, this is what happens.
Not sure how Peter was so aware of the proceedings in hell, but God's wrath on humanity has not been kept a secret.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses
I don't believe in the concept that God sends us to hell to burn forever. That is not at all part of my belief system. I believe that we can be our own worst enemy, and land ourselves there, if we are not careful, however.
But you do realize that there are Christians who preach the opposite. Right? I'm asking about their beliefs. Who has it right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses
Jesus Christ is already at that level of perfection...per Hebrews 13:8, where it says "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
1- Jesus wasn't protected from it. He died innocently because of evil people who set him up.
2- It's not a challenge. All will fail on their own. Only those spiritual related to Christ will avoid punishment.
3- The world is not perfect. It was perfect until the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was eaten from - then corruption entered the world.
1- Why was is required that Jesus' be a virgin birth?
2- I wasn't asking what criteria was meant to be used to "filter out". That isn't quite a secret or anything worth discussing here. I'd asked: Why does God want to punish and torture those who fail to meet the challenge? To me, that attitude sounds like that of a kid who goes and burns his toys if they don't play his tune as he subjects them to challenging conditions that he created. How is this any different?
3- If everything was created by this God you speak for, then who but Him is at the greatest fault? Or, was it a deliberate attempt to play such games as the aforementioned kid?
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