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By the same reasoning...we can say that no other mythic entities exist at all...including God. We humans might as well take responsibility for all the good then also.
For the record...no force can make you do anything you do not consent to..not God or any other entity.
Entities do exist however...on both teams...and I think the historical evidence very strongly supports this.
I don't have a problem with your opinion at all! But it is very far from the Judeo-Christian model, and personally I prefer overall to test and debate scripture here when it comes to these arguments myself...this being a Christian board and all.
When it comes to fallen angels and the adversary...Scripture is full of references all over the place.
That statement is absolutely not true...ones EGO makes you and everyone else do stupid and hurtful things each and every day...that's a fact. The next time someone makes you angry or offends you in some way...see if you have the ability to be non-reactive.
Most of my beliefs are far from the traditional Judeo-Christian model (is there really such a thing...given there are over 30,000 different denominations of Christianity) because I don't read and interpret the things written in it "literally" or through my egoic/carnal nature. The bible is a SPIRITUAL book, containing SPIRITUAL messages given through allegory, metaphor, parables, etc...this requires SPIRITUAL discernment to understand what is truly meant by the stories contained in it.
BTW... GOD IS ALL AND IN ALL...it is through God that we live, move and have our very being...that seems to make us responsible for the bad and the good.
I'll tell you what... you can worship Him and I'll send Him all the Love that's in my heart and soul, which I have done by the way and you know what? He returned His Love to me immediately.. I think, nope, I know that I'm gonna get the better end of the deal.
Oh, and not to go too far off topic, I'll link a message about what Hell looks like. This should entice people to want to stay away from this place. First God, and everything else will follow.
Hell and the Duration of Punishment (http://tinyurl.com/3jak8lt - broken link)
Right on. I love the way you responded to that. You know I wasn't trying to be offensive and I appreciate that. It's just the way you said it made me want to see where you stand on the whole better part of the deal thingy...lol. Yep, we are definitely getting the better part of the deal hunh...
I'm not saying we are in agreement on everything but... anyway.
Yeah, it does seem odd. It also seems odd God lost control of His creation. Rebellious angels, creating satan just so people have the option of spending forever in hell.... I guess His experiment didn't turn out too well.
1) Hell is not forever
2) You are leaving out the good part.
But,
3) I have often felt that the whole system sucks and maybe it would be far better if nothing ever existed, than to HAVE THESE OPPOSITES!!!
So, though I've made the attempt to understand it, I still do have an open mind to other ways of thinking.
He created him so that there could be an eternal pattern of creation.
All souls have the chance to eventually learn and figure this out, however. Hell is not eternal.
The creation part is like working out where your muscles get sore, (which is like us incarnating here on earth to deal with these problems) but the muscles grow back stronger. Without the damage to the muscles, there is no further creation. It is the same with intelligence in the brain. Shamans go through a "traumatic experience" before they can resurrect and attain their beautiful enlightenment! GO look that one up, and learn from them!
People think that it pleases God to just create out of pure magic...but if that were the case...why even give us free will or ever have bad things ever happen to people in the entire history of the universe in forever? IF it were all so new agey...then everything would have always been just perfect, and always will be...but we see that there is in fact, a Spiritual Engine here at work.
Why did Christ have to tell us how to RESIST EVIL TO HAVE A TREASURE IN HEAVEN the way that I have also described it works?
]mod]orphaned[/mod]
I somewhat agree with you here. My point above was for those who believe hell is a place of eternal suffering - God is so loving that He lets people choose themselves into a state of endless torment? That makes no sense.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 08-31-2011 at 05:10 PM..
It just gives people, Christians in particular, an excuse or something to blame on, the things they are expressly responsible for, whether it be their thoughts or actions...that way they don't actually have to take responsibility for the things they say and do and can blame it on some mythic evil entity.
Yep... gotta blame the scapegoat. The fact is that it is our thinking that is the problem... and thoughts are things and this can lead to all kinds of stupid actions, distortions of the truth, etc.
There is a freedom that comes to our souls when we know the Real Truth; however, most people don't even know what our soul is... and that's a topic for another thread.
Blessings.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 08-31-2011 at 05:16 PM..
Not sure how Peter was so aware of the proceedings in hell, but God's wrath on humanity has not been kept a secret.
But you do realize that there are Christians who preach the opposite. Right? I'm asking about their beliefs. Who has it right?
1- Why was is required that Jesus' be a virgin birth?
2- I wasn't asking what criteria was meant to be used to "filter out". That isn't quite a secret or anything worth discussing here. I'd asked: Why does God want to punish and torture those who fail to meet the challenge? To me, that attitude sounds like that of a kid who goes and burns his toys if they don't play his tune as he subjects them to challenging conditions that he created. How is this any different?
3- If everything was created by this God you speak for, then who but Him is at the greatest fault? Or, was it a deliberate attempt to play such games as the aforementioned kid?
These are all AWSOME points you have made. I have wondered the same thing about Peter. How and why would he know this?
Yes, I know most Christians preach the opposite...but I think that most members in this thread will also disagree with them, and that way of thinking, fortunately. As for who has it right...we will all soon see!! lol
I came up with my personal belief on this, by the way, after studying ORDER / CHAOS and BEAUTY (Which is the balance of both of them) and developing insights into musical composition (and creation of complex beautiful forms in general) and similar things. My understanding of how patterns in the universe are developed and progressed came from an extension of all this...and that combined with my 20 years of theological study helped me understand evil in a different way.
Humans occur at the balance of Order and Chaos in this universe...and as such..are beautiful...but that's a slightly different subject.
Yep... gotta blame the scapegoat. The fact is that it is our thinking that is the problem... and thoughts are things and this can lead to all kinds of stupid actions, distortions of the truth, etc.
There is a freedom that comes to our souls when we know the Real Truth; however, most people don't even know what our soul is... and that's a topic for another thread.
Blessings.
You hit the nail on the head....our EGOIC THINKING develops from the time we are very small....we identify ourselves by it with the label of a name, by things, with certain people, our work, etc....I, me and mine...when in reality this "false" self that we represent to the world and live through is not who we truly are.
That statement is absolutely not true...ones EGO makes you and everyone else do stupid and hurtful things each and every day...that's a fact. The next time someone makes you angry or offends you in some way...see if you have the ability to be non-reactive.
Most of my beliefs are far from the traditional Judeo-Christian model (is there really such a thing...given there are over 30,000 different denominations of Christianity) because I don't read and interpret the things written in it "literally" or through my egoic/carnal nature. The bible is a SPIRITUAL book, containing SPIRITUAL messages given through allegory, metaphor, parables, etc...this requires SPIRITUAL discernment to understand what is truly meant by the stories contained in it.
BTW... GOD IS ALL AND IN ALL...it is through God that we live, move and have our very being...that seems to make us responsible for the bad and the good.
I do now, after many years, have the ability to be non-reactive. I had a very psycho ex-girlfriend that I used to live with and couldn't get rid of for awhile (for prior financial reasons), and I had to learn a whole new level of forgiveness and non-reactiveness in order to rise above it and not have a nervous breakdown. It went on for over 2 years and it was horrible. But it took me to a whole new level. I'm still not perfect, but you contradicting my statement that "no force can make you do anything you do not consent to" kind of implies that you think we are ultimately robots with no spiritual ability to rise above. Isn't the whole point to transcend this lower ego mess...as you were saying? Well then, if so, then it must be true that we can reach a state where no outside force can get to us...otherwise how can true transcendence exist?
Note I said "no force can make you" do it. You always have a CHOICE. Or are you saying we don't have a choice?
Christ said to be slow to anger. There are good reasons to get angry..but we were talking about EVIL ACTS. No outside force can make you do an evil thing if you don't let it. That is the point we are talking about. We have changed the subject though, from evil entities, to other people..so what do you think? Is it possible for a human being to ever reach a point where they will be non-abusive no matter what happens? I think all psychologists will even agree, that states of maturity and mental health DO exist, where you don't have to be automatically abusive just because someone abuses you first.
So you agree with me now that Jesus had to be protected.
Not exactly. Jesus didn't reside in a bubble. He was tempted to sin just like everyone else - but didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
Why must I judge the kids for the shortcomings or strengths of the parents? Is this God you speak would punish all children of criminals, regardless of who they themselves are? I hope not. But it sure looks like the premise of this version of Christianity you maintain.
Adam and Christ are the keys - you are either unified with one or the other. It doesn't matter who your physical parent is. Everyone in Adam is corrupt in God's eyes - regardless of who they are - everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
So this God of yours is simply playing games. After all, perfect world would have resulted in a world where He wouldn't be angry and unforgiving and resort to torture unless everybody followed a singular path that He apparently desires? Anger can't be anybody's hobby, or a way to derive pleasure, I hope. What do you think?
I can understand why you would say that - your perspective is what it is.
God is not playing games. The perfect world is to come. Those who are with Christ will be there.
It is out of love the God chooses any of us to dwell with Him in the perfect world. If God did not send Christ to the world, we would all be subject to His anger.
Anger is not God's pleasure, but it is part of his character - just like we have anger.
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