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Grace is the gift freely given WHEN we do the works commanded by God.
Katie
Every single person on earth is given God's grace, Katie - the free gift has been given to everyone - believer AND unbeliever.
Hebrews 2:9: But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Romans 4:10: We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before!
Ephesians 3:7: I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace given me through the working of His power.
Once again. Lordship salvation is nothing other than salvation by works and is a heresy. You are not eternally saved by obedience to the commands of Jesus. You are eternally saved by obeying the one command the unbeliever can obey. To be persuaded that Jesus Christ is the one who did all the work necessary to provide salvation for those who will believe in Him.
Lordship salvation? What is that? I don't see it in the Bible, but then I don't see a lot of what you say written in the Bible. Where do you come up with this stuff?
I wonder how Jesus will respond when you tell Him, "You are not eternally saved by obedience to the commands of Jesus." How do you reconcile that doctrine with the following scriptures?
1 John 2:3Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
"Why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things that I say unto you" (Luke 6:46)
"Not everyone who says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Mt. 7:21).
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” (Matthew 7:24-27)
31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. [/SIZE]32[SIZE=3] Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31-32)
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name cast out demons? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you who work iniquity" (Mt. 7:22-23).
“If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done unto you" (John 15:4-7).
Every single person on earth is given God's grace, Katie - the free gift has been given to everyone - believer AND unbeliever.
Hebrews 2:9: But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Romans 4:10: We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before!
Ephesians 3:7: I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace given me through the working of His power.
Yes the grace of God is given to all, but we make a choice to accept or reject God's grace.
I agree that Abraham was not justified by circumcision. Circumcision did not come until after God declared Abram righteous. Paul says this in Romans because he wants the Roman christians to understand that Abraham wasn't a Jew by birth. He was a Gentile, and it was because of his faith that he was justified. He is saying that Gentiles can be justified by faith without circumcision. So now you have to ask yourself what kind of faith did Abraham have? Was it dead faith like James talks about?
What you need to do is to look closely at the story of Abraham. He was righteous from the time we first meet him. He had genuine faith, the kind that results in works.
When God told Abram to do something, he did it. God told him to leave his homeland. He did it without question. He had no idea where he was going. He built altars to God and worshipped Him. He called on the name of the Lord. Abram's faith resulted in works.
God did not see Abram as an unbeliever or unforgiven sinner before we read Genesis 15:6, "Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it as righteousness."
Before God declares Abram righteous, we read in Genesis 15:1 that Abraham was righteious all along. “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward.” Could God have said that to an unrighteous, unforgiven sinner? Would God be the shield and great reward for an unforgiven sinner?
Lordship salvation? What is that? I don't see it in the Bible, but then I don't see a lot of what you say written in the Bible. Where do you come up with this stuff?
I wonder how Jesus will respond when you tell Him, "You are not eternally saved by obedience to the commands of Jesus." How do you reconcile that doctrine with the following scriptures?
1 John 2:3Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.4 He who says, “I know Him,†and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
"Why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things that I say unto you" (Luke 6:46)
"Not everyone who says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Mt. 7:21).
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.†(Matthew 7:24-27)
31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. [/SIZE]32[SIZE=3] Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.†(John 8:31-32)
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name cast out demons? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you who work iniquity" (Mt. 7:22-23).
“If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done unto you" (John 15:4-7).
Katiemygirl
Readers please refer to post #139. What I said there is plain enough. Those of you who don't know what Lordship salvation is, pull up the information concerning what it is on Google or Bing. If you are not really interested to know what it is, then don't bother yourselves.
Readers please refer to post #139. What I said there is plain enough. Those of you who don't know what Lordship salvation is, pull up the information concerning what it is on Google or Bing. If you are not really interested to know what it is, then don't bother yourselves.
I finally see where you are coming from.
You reject Christ as Lord, but claim Him as Savior. You refuse to submit to Him. You teach others they don't need to submit to Him and obey the commands of Jesus to be saved.
You accuse others of teaching a false gospel. You say that they add works to the grace of God. Anyone who opposes you gets tagged with "lordship salvation."
I trust Jesus Christ as my Savior and I have committed myself to Christ as Lord of my life. I submit to His sovereign authority. I obey his commands. And you call that heresy? If that is Lordship Salvation, then I wear the label proudly.
Those who do not accept Jesus as Lord, reject Him. Faith that rejects His sovereign authority is no different than unbelief.
Acts 16:31 "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
Romans 10:9 "If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved."
Acts 2:36 "Let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."
There is no salvation except "Lordship Salvation."
I refer readers to the Bible. Everything you ever need to know is written there for you.
You reject Christ as Lord, but claim Him as Savior. You refuse to submit to Him. You teach others they don't need to submit to Him and obey the commands of Jesus to be saved.
You accuse others of teaching a false gospel. You say that they add works to the grace of God. Anyone who opposes you gets tagged with "lordship salvation."
I trust Jesus Christ as my Savior and I have committed myself to Christ as Lord of my life. I submit to His sovereign authority. I obey his commands. And you call that heresy? If that is Lordship Salvation, then I wear the label proudly.
Those who do not accept Jesus as Lord, reject Him. Faith that rejects His sovereign authority is no different than unbelief.
Acts 16:31 "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
Romans 10:9 "If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved."
Acts 2:36 "Let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."
There is no salvation except "Lordship Salvation."
I refer readers to the Bible. Everything you ever need to know is written there for you.
Katie
Posts #121 and 139 put to rest that accusation.
Distinquish between what is reguired for eternal salvation and what is required to be a disciple of Christ after having first been saved through faith alone in Christ alone. Every disciple of Jesus Christ is a believer, but not every believer in Jesus Christ is a disciple. But every believer, disciple or not, is eternally saved.
Obedience to the commands of Jesus Christ is necessary to be a disciple of Christ, but not to receive the free gift of eternal life through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Until you can make those distinctions you will never be oriented to grace. As long as you believe that the believer can lose or walk away from his salvation you will never understand the grace of God.
Distinquish between what is reguired for eternal salvation and what is required to be a disciple of Christ after having first been saved through faith alone in Christ alone. Every disciple of Jesus Christ is a believer, but not every believer in Jesus Christ is a disciple. But every believer, disciple or not, is eternally saved.
Obedience to the commands of Jesus Christ is necessary to be a disciple of Christ, but not to receive the free gift of eternal life through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Until you can make those distinctions you will never be oriented to grace. As long as you believe that the believer can lose or walk away from his salvation you will never understand the grace of God.
There is only one way to be a disciple of Christ, and that is to obey the command of Jesus to be baptized. Matthew 28:18-20
You said "not every believer in Christ is a disciple." NONE OF THEM ARE. They don't become disciples until they obey Jesus' command to be baptized.
We live in a world filled with believers in Christ. Yet we know that "few there be that find it."
I won't be oriented to grace? Jesus is my Lord. He is my savior. He commands. I obey. I have been promised that salvation is for those who obey. Hebrews 5:9, Acts 5:32 I know I am saved by God's grace. I believe in those promises.
You refuse to accept Jesus as your LORD. You reject His commands. You reject Him. Anyone that reject His teachings rejects Him.
Add that to the fact that you believe that all of our current modern day accepted translations of the Bible are MISTRANSLATED. Yet you will make the claim that the word of God is inspired. What a contradiction! Oh what a tangled web we weave!
Distinquish between what is reguired for eternal salvation and what is required to be a disciple of Christ after having first been saved through faith alone in Christ alone. Every disciple of Jesus Christ is a believer, but not every believer in Jesus Christ is a disciple. But every believer, disciple or not, is eternally saved.
Obedience to the commands of Jesus Christ is necessary to be a disciple of Christ, but not to receive the free gift of eternal life through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Until you can make those distinctions you will never be oriented to grace. As long as you believe that the believer can lose or walk away from his salvation you will never understand the grace of God.
No way you Can be saved and not be a disciple to some degree or another. Some may have only one talent and some five and some ten and etc. But even he who has only one and does not put it to use for profit, will have even that taken from him and given to another. Even an old lady living alone can know from God how to spend even the one talent. You know this scripture, so why do you dance around it and not embrace it.
Mike you mean well and you did well until you spoke against Lordship because He is the Lord. You have destroyed your credibility here with many.
No way you Can be saved and not be a disciple to some degree or another. Some may have only one talent and some five and some ten and etc. But even he who has only one and does not put it to use for profit, will have even that taken from him and given to another. Even an old lady living alone can know from God how to spend even the one talent. You know this scripture, so why do you dance around it and not embrace it.
Mike you mean well and you did well until you spoke against Lordship because He is the Lord. You have destroyed your credibility here with many.
I am not going to keep going over these things with you. Lordship salvation is a heresy. It is salvation based on works. It has nothing to do with being a disciple after salvation.
Again, the heresy of Lordship salvation can be researched on the internet. Those interested can pull up the information on Google or Bing, etc...
Obeying Christ after salvation is not legalism. But any kind of works for the purpose of earning salvation is legalism. And the stench of legalism is nauseating.
Oh! I originally thought this was posted by another poster. My mistake. What I said still applies however. Simply research what Lordship salvation means.
Here is a link ---> What is Lordship salvation?
Last edited by Michael Way; 10-25-2011 at 06:43 PM..
There is only one way to be a disciple of Christ, and that is to obey the command of Jesus to be baptized. Matthew 28:18-20
You said "not every believer in Christ is a disciple." NONE OF THEM ARE. They don't become disciples until they obey Jesus' command to be baptized.
We live in a world filled with believers in Christ. Yet we know that "few there be that find it."
I won't be oriented to grace? Jesus is my Lord. He is my savior. He commands. I obey. I have been promised that salvation is for those who obey. Hebrews 5:9, Acts 5:32 I know I am saved by God's grace. I believe in those promises.
You refuse to accept Jesus as your LORD. You reject His commands. You reject Him. Anyone that reject His teachings rejects Him.
Add that to the fact that you believe that all of our current modern day accepted translations of the Bible are MISTRANSLATED. Yet you will make the claim that the word of God is inspired. What a contradiction! Oh what a tangled web we weave!
Katie, since you persist in claiming that I ever said that all of our current modern day accepted translations of the Bible are mistranslated than find the post where you claim that I said it AND POST IT HERE FOR ALL TO SEE.
As I also told you in the other thread, you consistantly show extremely poor comprehension skills.
You were also refuted concerning your claim that I don't accept Jesus as Lord in posts # 121, 139 and 156 of this thread.
Refrain from making accusations and getting personal. You only show your true colors when you do that.
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