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Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
I heard someone claim that the above means that a saved person can have his name blotted out of the book of life and lose his salvation if they sin. That would imply two things:
1. A person can lose his/her salvation
2. Salvation is through works (sinless life)
Both are false.
Luke 10:20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.
"He who overcomes" does not mean a sinless person, it simpleu refers to a saved person. Their names will never be blotted out of from the Lamb's Book Of Life.
I think all names are blotted out (none righteous) and a new name is written in.
He meant it when He said it to her...that her sins were indeed forgiven, and the rest of scripture clearly explains HOW! one can and WILL! lose their salvation if they die in their sins! Read the BIBLE with eyes and heart wide open! for God's sake!
Psalms 119:155 STATES! Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.
SALVATION IS FAR FROM THE WICKED!
SALVATION IS FAR FROM THE WICKED!
I am not talking about the wicked, as they have not been saved in the first place. If you have not been saved, then it would not be possible to lose what you never had.
Quote:
NOT ADDRESSED TO WILLFULL SINNERS!
Romans 1: 1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6Among whom are ye (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) also the called of Jesus Christ:
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD. CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you (who? THE BELOVED OF GODCALLED TO BE SAINTS!) all, that your (who's? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
9For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTD!) always in my prayers;
10Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!).
11For I long to see you (WHO? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!), that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
12That is, that I may be comforted together with you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) by the mutual faith both of you and me.
13Now I would not have you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!), (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) also, even as among other Gentiles.
14I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you (who? THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS!) that are at Rome also.
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
NONE OF THESE ABOVE HIGHLIGHTED IN BLUE!!! IF THEY DIE IN THEIR INIQUITIES!!! WILL RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE!!! AND ALL THE SCRIPTURE THAT YOU PARROT WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING, WHEN THEY SPEAK OF TO WHOM! WILL RECEIVE THEIR SALVATION, WILL ONLY! BE THOSE WHO ARE THE BELOVED OF GOD...THE CALLED!!! OF GOD, WHO ARE CALLED TO BE SAINTS!!!...WHO ARE OBEDIENT TO HIS COMMANDS!!! WILL SEE THEIR SALVATION AND RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE!!!
AND IF!!! THOSE WHO ARE THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS, TURN AWAY FROM THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND COMMIT WILLFULL SIN, THEY ARE LOST FOREVER!!! THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY!!! IT IS WRITTEN!!!
I do not think there is such thing as as a saved person who is a willful sinner. You are one or the other, not both. The Bible teaches the desire for willful sin is dead in the believer. This means that a willful sinner was not saved in the first place.
I believe that if someone looses his/her salvation that person was never saved in the first place. I believe once you are saved you are saved.
What you believe is what you have been taught by false teachers and false prophets. You believe a lie.
READ GOD'S WORD ON THE SUBJECT.....
Ezekiel 18: 24 "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
I am not talking about the wicked, as they have not been saved in the first place. If you have not been saved, then it would not be possible to lose what you never had.
What you believe is what you have been taught by false teachers and false prophets. You believe a lie.
READ GOD'S WORD ON THE SUBJECT.....
Ezekiel 18: 24 "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
I do not think there is such thing as as a saved person who is a willful sinner. You are one or the other, not both. The Bible teaches the desire for willful sin is dead in the believer. This means that a willful sinner was not saved in the first place.
Ezekiel 18: 24 "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
The Bible says the names were 'written' in the books from the foundation of the world, which would be in harmony with Paul's writings about predestination. I take that to mean there is foreknowledge that a person's name would one day be written in the book (when he becomes a believer). If that was the case, it would make no sense that a name of a saved person would be erased.
I understand what you're trying to say for I do agree about predestination. And yet Jesus does say because he is the truth.
What I honestly believe is that we humans attempt to reconcile two truths from our human reason standpoint rather than let each truth speak for themself.
You may find this weird, but I have always took comfort in the fact my salvation is secure, while understanding that Jesus does indeed warn about becoming complacent.
Revelation 3:1-6 is the letter to the church of Sardis; --- a church/people with a reputation for being Spiritually alive, but, who are actually dead. The message is to "wake up and have true life" -- with the promise that those who do, will never have their names blotted-out of the Lamb's Book of Life. \
The warning to those who do not 'wake up (and find true life in Christ)' is that "The Lord is coming quickly, as a thief in the night, and those who are asleep (lost, Spiritually dead, not saved) will lose the only opportunity they will ever have to find true life ... and will remain forever lifeless" -- The latter could have had their names written into the Book of Life, but, rejected/ignored the opportunity and, in effect, their names are forever blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
No, they are not two different books, they're one in the same.
The "Book of Life" is the title and "Lamb's Book of Life" is noting who the owner of "Book of Life" belongs to.....
The problem here is that the Bible was written for all types of people ...
those who struggle with assuredness
those who throw caution out the window.
Scripture makes very clear that can and does abandon the faith... which btw, is the only way your name is written in the Book of Life to begin with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairieparson
You folks know not the scriptures nor the power therein: A Christian certainly can fall away, lose their faith and lose their salvation. Note the following texts:
Heb 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,Heb 6:5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Heb 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, Heb 10:27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Heb 10:28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.Heb 10:29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Note that this text cites several examples of the Israelites from the OT that fell away.
1Co 10:11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.1Co 10:12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!
Jn 15:2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
Jn 15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
Note Paul's warning here to the Christians in Rome.
Ro 8:12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it.Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
Also note Jesus explanation to the parable of the sower.
Lk 8:13 Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.
There are many more references, but I don't want to hear your arguments and rationalizations in an attempt to deny the clear words of God. This should be more than sufficient to make the point. Yes, there are texts that indicate God's help in remaining faithful, and the Bible makes clear that God's power is beyond Satan's so that Satan cannot snatch us out of God's hand, which is certainly true, but that doesn't mean that Christians cannot ignore God and walk away from him. That would be a denial of man's free will.
Lastly I should add there are other indications from the Bible that one's name can be deleted from the Book of Life.
Ex 32:33 The LORD replied to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.
Finally, from Ezekiel:
Eze 18:24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
I understand what you're saying. How else can Jesus say this any plainer...
Matthew 10:22
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matthew 10:22 doesn't sound like OSAS
Matthew 24:13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:13 doesn't sound like OSAS
1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
ffffffffff[quote=Verna Perry;21881241]Moderator cut: deleted
Moderator cut: orphaned response
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Ezekiel 18: 24 "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Again, this can only refer to an unsaved person who was righteous only in his own mind. The Bible teaches that desire to live in willful sin is dead in the lives of a believer?
Ask yourself: Is the desire live in willful sin alive in your life? Or do you desire to avoid it? The answer will help you understand my point.
Last edited by june 7th; 11-29-2011 at 01:32 PM..
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