Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In Matthew 11:23-24 Jesus said, “And thou Capernaum, which art exalted into heaven, shalt be brought down to hell; (Gehenna) for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for thee.” Jesus said it would be “more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment”
Being more tolerable for the the land Sodom in the day of judgment shows us that they will rise and are not in a permanent state of annihilation.
Even if you believe that what the prophet declared is not to be taken literally but figuratively, concerning Sodom and her daughters, Samaria and her daughters and Israel, what do you believe he meant?
God bless and peace
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-04-2012 at 01:28 PM..
Hi Mshipmate, I believe that these passages speak to the restoration of Sodom and so do many other believers, Biblical scholars familiar with the language. Words that have been translated as "eternal" in many places in the scriptures do not mean "eternal" as has been shared. God is the Savior of the Sodomites also because Jesus died for all persons.
There are no contradictions. God bless and peace.
I believe that these passages speak to the restoration of Sodom and so do many other believers, Biblical scholars familiar with the language.
YES, it's important to be familiar with the Hebrew language, idioms, acrostics etc etc.
HOWEVER, when a Figure of Speech is employed the standard definition of words no longer applies.
Take for instance these English Figs:
"He kicked the bucket."
look up the 'standard' definition of kick and bucket and the saying makes no sense.
"She's as big as a house."
Again definitions of big and house would make no sense here either.
"Let's paint the town red."
Ditto on paint, town, red.
And example from real life:
Years ago we had a foreign exchange student from Yugoslavia. He had quite a good command of the English language, but of course didn't know about Figs.
One afternoon he was uptown with several of the boys and when the last one left to go home he said, "See ya later."
Alex, taking the phrase literal, waited around for at least an hour for his friend to come back. When he finally went home to his host's house they explained it was just a Fig. of Speech.
So my point? You are taking apocalyptic language [figurative] and trying to translate it as literal. So, no, S & G are not going to be literally restored again.
We know this how? First, taking ONE passage in Ezekiel, and pitting it against the other passages about the 2 cities [even if Ezek. wasn't written as figurative] makes the Bible contradict itself.
Not a good way to rightly divide. To fully understand a 'hard' passage one has to start with the passage that makes the most sense, sheds the best light on the subject, to interpret the difficult passage.
That is the only 'safe' way to interpret Scripture. Otherwise you can make the Bible say anything you want it to, and proof text to make your beliefs supposedly line up with what your teachers are saying.
Again, not a good way to rightly divide.
Mshipmate, not to be rude, but I think it is safe to say that many of us, including Shana, have completed our elementary lessons in rightly dividing the Word a long time ago. Perhaps your focus should be on the spiritual significance of what is said by the Spirit, rather than focusing on the fundamentals of grammar that we have been very familiar with for a long, long time. Whether you agree with universal salvation for all or not, you should know that most of those who believe in universal salvation, (even though they don't flaunt it), are the most meticulous, skilled Bible scholars you will converse with. They have to be. God usually doesn't reveal the True Gospel until one has been through, and experienced first hand all other perspectives first, including reaching a very competent level of Scriptural understanding (i.e. - Paul is the "type"). It's a necessary right of passage. Until one has a crystal clear view of what is wrong, and why (by experience), there is no contrast to measure what is right; and why it is right. So, just know that you can be confident that we are quite familiar with the basics, and focus on the message from the Spirit instead. Time is precious.
Originally Posted by twin.spin Expecially when one wantonly refuses that "never" means "never" ...
Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Matthew 18:3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mark 3:29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.â€
John 8:51 I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.â€
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrhockney
Wantonly? If thats the case, considering how some Bibles translate the same verses, do you think the writer of Youngs Literal really liked Chinese food? ;p (rimshot)
Heb 2: 8 ......Now when it says "all things," it means nothing is left out! ...sunnysmyler
One can only say what sunnysmyler conclude when one wantonly opposes Jesus saying " will never"
Twin, you're actually making me nervous now. Are you really that obsessed with God tormenting people? Holy! Relax bro. Let's change the subject or something.
Twin, you're actually making me nervous now. Are you really that obsessed with God tormenting people? Holy! Relax bro. Let's change the subject or something.
Agreed... the obsession of rejecting everything that Jesus taught is right up there. Once people stop with the half-truths then maybe my zealous for all the truth might relax ........ not.
(sounds like the typical UR person in Luke 13:22-27)
Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”
He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to....
“Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
“But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’
\\\\\\\\\\\ least we forget .... some of the other truthful words from the Bible on either\or both aspects which Jesus and others had an obsession on //////////////
“I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son"
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”
"he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb."
"Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient."
"Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord."
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?"
Last edited by twin.spin; 07-04-2012 at 05:08 PM..
Until one has a crystal clear view of what is wrong, and why (by experience), there is no contrast to measure what is right; and why it is right
I believe that this is so true, Illuin. I believe that God brought me into a 180 degree turn to see the glorious plan that He has for the creation. It wasn't until I went through the experience of believing that only a select few who did this and that were "going to heaven", that I began to have questions and began to seek out what the scriptures really say and I believe that this was prompted by God's Spirit. It took awhile for Him to make it real in my heart due to indoctrination and due to just accepting what I had always been taught. I am not a Bible scholar but God has been so gracious to open my eyes and heart to the truth of the restoration of all to Him as I have studied, and I am thankful for this. I have new eyes now when I look at my family, friends, and everyone, to realize that God has a glorious plan for each person, and He will do so much more than we can ever imagine. God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-04-2012 at 09:10 PM..
There are very good, decent people throughout the world who have never been exposed to Christianity. If those people are damned to hell by God, then I don't like God. This is why I turned away from Christianity.
There are very good, decent people throughout the world who have never been exposed to Christianity. If those people are damned to hell by God, then I don't like God. This is why I turned away from Christianity.
Good news. That is what most Christians believe as well. If you never heard of God you can't be damned at all if you don't follow Him. God is not illogical. Of couse, you still need to be a good person in whatever you believe.
There are very good, decent people throughout the world who have never been exposed to Christianity. If those people are damned to hell by God, then I don't like God.
I'll argue that 99% of the world hasn't truly seen the Lord for who He really is. Those that do, come - no matter what state we're in, one can't help but be consumed by pure love.
There's no doubt that there's a cover-up, and a mass blinding of our eyes to the truth. That has to be part of the plan - the big picture.
There are very good, decent people throughout the world who have never been exposed to Christianity. If those people are damned to hell by God, then I don't like God. This is why I turned away from Christianity.
most on this thread know there is no place where people will burn, the issue is whether what Jesus did was enough or not.
God burning people is silly and immature. The best thing you probably did was turn from churchianity. but dont turn away from seeking God.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
