Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have not read all this thread. I posted earlier in it. I keep seeing people say that Paul taught all will be saved. Someone else may have already brought this out but here is Pauls true meaning.
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved , and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim. 2:1-4
Pauls meaning is that God will have all men to be saved as in all KINDS OF MEN. Whether they be kings, or men of authority, or if they be small as in just the average little guy. He instructs to pray for the GREAT as well as THE SMALL.
All men. See the point? Not that God is promising to save every individual when Jesus/Yeshua has already told us that only FEW are actually going to be saved.
And just for general information I was baptized into the name of Jesus in a Church that taught Ultimate Reconciliation as the Pastor called it. He was a great man in my eyes teaching a lot of truth.
Yet sadly he missed God on that teaching.
Sounds like the pastor was right on, Michael
Ephesians 1:
15 [w]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For [x] by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.17 He [y] is before all things, and in Him all things [z]hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For [aa]it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the [ab]fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in [ac]heaven.
The promise is for all. He is not saving all at the same time but eventually all will come.Jesus died for all men, not just all types of men. He is the Savior of all men, especially (not exclusively) of believers.
Have a good day! God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 06-29-2012 at 07:02 AM..
Jesus got everything right- I was all those other characters that clutter up scripture that were all over the map...To bad a club formed around Christ- It kind of dimmed his light.
Jesus got everything right- I was all those other characters that clutter up scripture that were all over the map...To bad a club formed around Christ- It kind of dimmed his light.
CORRECTION............it was all those others who clouded the message that wrecked the Christian message.
Trouble is with this concept that it does not agree with the teachings of Yeshua.
Well, A good start pointing in getting to the bottom of whether it is the teaching of Jesus or not, is to ask yourself....... Does God desire all men to be saved ? ........ Then the next question would be.......... Does God accomplish is desires............ Then when you have answered these 2 questions............... Search the scriptures, to see if anything God as ever desired did not materialize.
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
God is a faith God, a God who speaks His desires and they are accomplished.
Hi Thrill. I just wanted you to have the correct understanding of the verse. But let's consider the many verse that speak to the annihilation of the wicked. That is true. The scriptures do indeed speak of that. And the wicked are indeed destroyed for the rest of eternity. But they are destroyed by giving them the FIRE of the Holy Spirit. Remember God stands as a refiner's fire and as Fuller's soap.
A refiner's fire PURIFIES the metal by removing the dross (wickedness). Fuller's soap is used to make a garment WHITE. So many times I have this verse used to preach eternal torment:
Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
That verse speaks of a Lord that is going to make us clean. That is wonderful!
Mal 3:1 Behold, I am sending My messenger, and He will clear the way before Me. And the Lord whom you are seeking shall suddenly come to His temple, even the Angel of the Covenant, in whom you delight. Behold, He comes, says Jehovah of Hosts.
Mal 3:2 But who can endure the day of His coming? And who will stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like fuller's soap.
Mal 3:3 And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; and He shall purify the sons of Levi and purge them like gold and like silver, that they may be presenters of a grain offering in righteousness to Jehovah.
Sounds like it is speaking about the Levitical tribe...You know, aspecific group of people?...This is the problem that I had with the Pentacostal Church that I was in for eight years, they took every scripture and self applied it, whether it was being specific or not...They generalized everything...You took ONE verse in an attempt to prove your theory and applied it en masse...When it is obviously speaking with regards to the Levitical Tribe...
Well, A good start pointing in getting to the bottom of whether it is the teaching of Jesus or not, is to ask yourself....... Does God desire all men to be saved ? ........ Then the next question would be.......... Does God accomplish is desires............ Then when you have answered these 2 questions............... Search the scriptures, to see if anything God as ever desired did not materialize.
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
God is a faith God, a God who speaks His desires and they are accomplished.
If Elaine Pagels is correct, then the Valentinians believed that those who only attained psychic salvation would ultimately attain pneumatic salvation at the end of the world. After they died, those who had only attained psychic redemption waited with the Demiurge until the end. Then they joined those who had pneumatic redemption for the "wedding feast of all the saved" and they "all become equal and mutually recognize one another" (Excerpts of Theodotus 63:2). Then they entered the Pleroma to be joined to an angel.
If this is correct then the only difference between psychic salvation and pneumatic salvation is a matter of timing. One could attain pneumatic salvation now by becoming a Valentinianor wait until the end to attain it. Despite its lower value than gnosis, pistis was decisive for salvation! - http://www.gnosis.org/library/valent..._Knowledge.htm
Sounds a lot like Universalism, doesn't it?...
Last edited by Richard1965; 06-29-2012 at 10:40 AM..
Reason: Forgot to cite site...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
