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Grace is given to be able seek. Salvation is a matter of daily adding to your spirit through prayer/seeking and then obeying what you know to be true as given to you by Grace. It is the process of adding more of Christ to ones nature first by asking and then obediance by the Grace given. Jesus said to take up the cross daily and follow so that the Kingdom would grow in the spirit unto a mature tree full of the fruit of righteousness.
2PET 1:2-10 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as His divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto Life and Godliness, through the knowledge of Him that has called us to Glory [Beauty of Character] and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacks these things is blind, and can not see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if you do these things, you shall never fall:
Like I said Cimaroon we can quote scripture in disagreement until the cows come home. You believe we are being woken up out of death. We are either alive or dead, not one foot in the grave.
Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. Isaiah 46:9.
Oh that I were as in months past, as in the days when God preserved me;
When his lamp shined upon my head, and when by his light I walked through darkness;
As I was in the days of my youth, when the secret of God was upon my tent.
Job 29:2-4
The tent is not the earthly tent referred to in the New Testament, its who we are and that tent( who we really are) as never been separated from God.
God is bringing us into remembrance of who we are. Abraham was always Abraham, he just got called Abram, we have always been "I am God", we just got called a beast and believed it, and manifested the nature of the beast, because we are what we believe.
You do realize that men DO fly now, right? Man imagined himself in flight, believed and had faith in what he saw in his imagination, and worked WITH the physical laws that are part of his existence to make flying a part of his reality. If all humans sat around waiting for physical death for everything to be accomplished for us, we'd still be living like our earliest ancestors. We would never grow, never evolve.
Airplanes fly....man doesn't.
Hot air balloons fly....man doesn't.
In regards to not wanting to wait around for God to accomplish his purpose in us and trying to do it ourselves.......see the deceptive nature of our evil hearts....God said to wait on him....
Isaiah 40:31
But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Psalm 27:14
Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD
Airplanes fly....man doesn't.
Hot air balloons fly....man doesn't.
LOL. Oh come on now, cimaroon. Stop splitting hairs my friend. You understood the point, I'm sure.
Quote:
In regards to not wanting to wait around for God to accomplish his purpose in us and trying to do it ourselves.......see the deceptive nature of our evil hearts....God said to wait on him....
The point wasn't about waiting on God, it's about not waiting on physical death to be our savior.
If you are certain that you must remain chained to the earth/beast nature prior to your physical death, then that is what you will experience. I believe that we may soar in the heavens by the power of Christ in us.
I do find it difficult to understand why it is so important to you to convince others that they are beasts.
Readers, I made it clear that post #77 was my last post on this thread. I also showed in post #47 that Ephesians 2:8 is not referring to faith as being a gift from God. You can go back and read my posts, or not.
Since faith is non-meritorious you can take no credit for believing on Christ which means that you do nothing to earn your salvation, but only trust in what Christ has already done on your behalf and thereby receive the free gift of salvation. Faith in a salvific sense does not come from God. If it did, then that would mean that God purposely withholds faith from certain people so that they will not be saved.
Some of you will never understand this.
Mike, thank you for providing the only solid theology in this thread. Just wanted you to know that your effort is appreciated, despite the lack of support from anyone else.
I long for good solid study and an internet discussion group. However, this Christian thread attracts such odd bedfellows, it gets me down. You are a breath of fresh air here and have much more patience than me. Blessings, brother.
Mike, thank you for providing the only solid theology in this thread. Just wanted you to know that your effort is appreciated, despite the lack of support from anyone else.
I long for good solid study and an internet discussion group. However, this Christian thread attracts such odd bedfellows, it gets me down. You are a breath of fresh air here and have much more patience than me. Blessings, brother.
Mike is off on a few things...He does not balance Scripture very well...Faith is indeed a gift from HaShem...If Salvation is a free gift, and Faith is not, then that would mean that Salvation is a gift for exercising Faith, in other words, Faith merits Salvationion, and Mike has repeatedly stated that there is nothing you can do to earn your Salvation...Does forked tongue come to mind?...
Mike, thank you for providing the only solid theology in this thread. Just wanted you to know that your effort is appreciated, despite the lack of support from anyone else.
I long for good solid study and an internet discussion group. However, this Christian thread attracts such odd bedfellows, it gets me down. You are a breath of fresh air here and have much more patience than me. Blessings, brother.
You're welcome. And thank you. There are a few posters on this forum who stick with what the Scriptures teach, but they are far outnumbered by people who simply don't know what they are talking about, and by false teachers who purposely pervert the teachings of the Bible. For that reason this forum is not a place where you will find a lot of good solid teaching. I do what I can to provide accurate information for those who will listen.
Faith in Jesus Christ is your response to the gospel. Faith is non-meritorious which means that you can not take any credit for simply trusting in the finished work of Christ on the Cross. The merit is not in the faith, but in the object of faith, which in the matter of eternal salvation is Jesus Christ. Faith or trust in Christ is a recognition that you can do nothing to earn or merit eternal life but are completely dependent on Jesus Christ. People who think that faith in a salvific sense comes from God simply cannot seem to understand that since salvation is conditioned upon faith in Christ - trusting in His finished work on the cross, if faith came from God, then God would be directly responsible for withholding faith from those who perish. This of course contradicts the fact that God does not desire that anyone perish, but that all men be saved. And yet, as the Bible makes clear, not all men will be saved. While God gave man the ability or capacity to have faith, just as ultimately everything comes from God, it is you who must do the believing. You must have the desire to have a relationship with God by trusting Jesus Christ for eternal life. Many people do not understand the distinction between the capacity to have faith and actually having faith.
Last edited by Michael Way; 12-06-2012 at 08:37 AM..
You must believe in order to be saved. (Romans 10:9-10)
This is true but why do we believe that our belief is something WE must do and not just something required for salvation.
God’s requirement: we must believe
But are we to do the work, or is God the one doing the work in us. In other words is it God who equips us with our belief?
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
· God is the one working in you
· He is giving you the will and making you do the things which please him
Look at God's requirement: we must believe. This is what pleases him; it pleases him for us to believe. If he is the one doing the work in us for his good pleasure then it is God who is making us believe. We aren't the ones choosing him, he is doing it.
So let me ask again. Are we really the one choosing to believe in Christ or do we believe only when God changes our hearts?
Many say that we must choose to believe. This is contrary to God's word.
Cimaroon, going back to your original post...
As I see it, Christ in us is revealed to us. So, yes, I agree that God is the one working. I just don't see it as God "making us" do things. It is God doing those things in and through us.
I think that where Christianity has gone off the rails is in teaching that salvation is, first of all, about being saved from eternal torment, or God's wrath. And, secondly, teaching that faith is about believing that Jesus was a "blood sacrifice" which appeased God's wrath at our beast nature, or that salvation is about appeasing God in any way. As I see it, it's not about something God required of us in order to accept us or be appeased so that we won't have to suffer wrath in the next life. No, salvation/healing is a gift TO US which we experience even in the here and now.
The gift is, as pcamps and jerwade said, being woken up to the recognition of who we really are, to the recognition of Christ in us. I think it's a gradual waking for most of us. As God in us causes us to experience the light of being loved or loving others, and we experience the healing that love brings to all of us, we wake up a little bit more. I believe that happens even before we recognize What we're being awoken by or to. And all along we are making a choice of whether to hit the snooze bar or not. But no matter how many times we hit the snooze bar, I believe the light keeps dawning (as pcamps said).
Salvation and faith don't have to do with accepting a "payment to God" on our behalf for our sin so that we can be forgiven. We ARE forgiven. Period, no strings attached. Salvation and faith, aisi, are about learning to trust God/Love, which is in all of us and is our true identity.
You're welcome. And thank you. There are a few posters on this forum who stick with what the Scriptures teach, but they are far outnumbered by people who simply don't know what they are talking about, and by false teachers who purposely pervert the teachings of the Bible. For that reason this forum is not a place where you will find a lot of good solid teaching. I do what I can to provide accurate information for those who will listen.
Faith in Jesus Christ is your response to the gospel. Faith is non-meritorious which means that you can not take any credit for simply trusting in the finished work of Christ on the Cross. The merit is not in the faith, but in the object of faith, which in the matter of eternal salvation is Jesus Christ. Faith or trust in Christ is a recognition that you can do nothing to earn or merit eternal life but are completely dependent on Jesus Christ. People who think that faith in a salvific sense comes from God simply cannot seem to understand that since salvation is conditioned upon faith in Christ - trusting in His finished work on the cross, if faith came from God, then God would be directly responsible for withholding faith from those who perish. This of course contradicts the fact that God does not desire that anyone perish, but that all men be saved. And yet, as the Bible makes clear, not all men will be saved. While God gave man the ability or capacity to have faith, just as ultimately everything comes from God, it is you who must do the believing. You must have the desire to have a relationship with God by trusting Jesus Christ for eternal life. Many people do not understand the distinction between the capacity to have faith and actually having faith.
It is still a meritorious act, mike, the way you explain it...So, where does repentance come from or regeneration?...
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Man imagined himself in flight, believed and had faith in what he saw in his imagination, and worked WITH the physical laws that are part of his existence to make flying a part of his reality. If all humans sat around waiting for physical death for everything to be accomplished for us, we'd still be living like our earliest ancestors. We would never grow, never evolve.
