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Nothing about believing in God. Quite the opposite.
21: What guarantee do you give me if I end up in hell for believing a lie?
23: I want some sort of guarantee that Louis' interpretation of the Bible won't end me up in hell for not believing in your god. What can you offer me?
26: And how sure are you that what you just wrote won't be held against you in the judgment? Are you willing to trade places with me in hell if you're wrong? The grand ASSUMPTION here is that you're right in this whole thing. Except you are gambling with people's souls and openly declaring it on an internet forum.
33: What is ET/penal substitution? The actual point is, pleroo, if you're wrong and the plain promises of the Bible was not somehow negated by promises of love, grace, and mercy for, not only God's people, but for all mankind, I will experience ETERNAL (something no one can fathom) punishment. All because you don't like the idea of punishment from a deity and decided to try to convince others of your uneasiness.
If historical Christianity (reformed, roman catholic, or orthodox) is wrong, I still enjoy the comfort of eternal bliss with our maker.
SOOOOO, I want a guarantee, like anything promised to me by a salesman, that what they are selling me will work: the obvious, plain understanding of promises made in the Bible that my sin against God is not punishable.
Nothing about believing in God. Quite the opposite.
21: What guarantee do you give me if I end up in hellfor believing a lie?
The "lie" you are afraid of believing is that God will save all ... you would first have to believe in God to believe that God will save all.
Quote:
23: I want some sort of guarantee that Louis' interpretation of the Bible won't end me up in hell for not believing in your god. What can you offer me?
26: And how sure are you that what you just wrote won't be held against you in the judgment? Are you willing to trade places with me in hell if you're wrong? The grand ASSUMPTION here is that you're right in this whole thing. Except you are gambling with people's souls and openly declaring it on an internet forum.
33: What is ET/penal substitution? The actual point is, pleroo, if you're wrong and the plain promises of the Bible was not somehow negated by promises of love, grace, and mercy for, not only God's people, but for all mankind, I will experience ETERNAL (something no one can fathom) punishment. All because you don't like the idea of punishment from a deity and decided to try to convince others of your uneasiness.
If historical Christianity (reformed, roman catholic, or orthodox) is wrong, I still enjoy the comfort of eternal bliss with our maker.
SOOOOO, I want a guarantee, like anything promised to me by a salesman, that what they are selling me will work: the obvious, plain understanding of promises made in the Bible that my sin against God is not punishable.
So, there you go ... you were worried that if you believe the "lie" that God will save all people, you will end up being eternally tormented by God. And I'll ask you again: Why would believing in God and believing that God will save all be something for which God would torture you eternally?
Nothing about believing in God. Quite the opposite.
21: What guarantee do you give me if I end up in hell for believing a lie?
23: I want some sort of guarantee that Louis' interpretation of the Bible won't end me up in hell for not believing in your god. What can you offer me?
26: And how sure are you that what you just wrote won't be held against you in the judgment? Are you willing to trade places with me in hell if you're wrong? The grand ASSUMPTION here is that you're right in this whole thing. Except you are gambling with people's souls and openly declaring it on an internet forum.
33: What is ET/penal substitution? The actual point is, pleroo, if you're wrong and the plain promises of the Bible was not somehow negated by promises of love, grace, and mercy for, not only God's people, but for all mankind, I will experience ETERNAL (something no one can fathom) punishment. All because you don't like the idea of punishment from a deity and decided to try to convince others of your uneasiness.
If historical Christianity (reformed, roman catholic, or orthodox) is wrong, I still enjoy the comfort of eternal bliss with our maker.
SOOOOO, I want a guarantee, like anything promised to me by a salesman, that what they are selling me will work: the obvious, plain understanding of promises made in the Bible that my sin against God is not punishable.
What if Islam is true and you go to hell, whom will you blame then?
What if exactly your attitude of following historical Christianity, just to be sure, makes you end in hell, even if it were true (maybe your attitude does not please God and you did not exactly believe as the dogma demands it), what then?
Your sentiments are to a large degree irrational, you even equate Protestantism with Catholicism when you put them par on par, personally I couldn't care less what you believe, I present and defend what I consider to be the truth, I am not trying to foist my opinion upon anybody.
The "lie" you are afraid of believing is that God will save all ... you would first have to believe in God to believe that God will save all.
No I don't. The lie I'm afraid of is "atheism will eventually lead to blessedness." If I'm an atheist, I think I will be destroyed at death. If I'll be blessed otherwise, no need to change my course in this life. If I'll be damned otherwise, I may rethink my position.
You encouraging me that I'll be blessed may lead to my damnation. See?
What if Islam is true and you go to hell, whom will you blame then?
What if exactly your attitude of following historical Christianity, just to be sure, makes you end in hell, even if it were true (maybe your attitude does not please God and you did not exactly believe as the dogma demands it), what then?
Your sentiments are to a large degree irrational, you even equate Protestantism with Catholicism when you put them par on par, personally I couldn't care less what you believe, I present and defend what I consider to be the truth, I am not trying to foist my opinion upon anybody.
No I don't. The lie I'm afraid of is "atheism will eventually lead to blessedness." If I'm an atheist, I think I will be destroyed at death. If I'll be blessed otherwise, no need to change my course in this life. If I'll be damned otherwise, I may rethink my position.
You encouraging me that I'll be blessed may lead to my damnation. See?
If an atheist believes that God will bless them, then they are no longer an atheist ... see?
Nothing about believing in God. Quite the opposite.
21: What guarantee do you give me if I end up in hell for believing a lie?
23: I want some sort of guarantee that Louis' interpretation of the Bible won't end me up in hell for not believing in your god. What can you offer me?
26: And how sure are you that what you just wrote won't be held against you in the judgment? Are you willing to trade places with me in hell if you're wrong? The grand ASSUMPTION here is that you're right in this whole thing. Except you are gambling with people's souls and openly declaring it on an internet forum.
33: What is ET/penal substitution? The actual point is, pleroo, if you're wrong and the plain promises of the Bible was not somehow negated by promises of love, grace, and mercy for, not only God's people, but for all mankind, I will experience ETERNAL (something no one can fathom) punishment. All because you don't like the idea of punishment from a deity and decided to try to convince others of your uneasiness.
If historical Christianity (reformed, roman catholic, or orthodox) is wrong, I still enjoy the comfort of eternal bliss with our maker.
SOOOOO, I want a guarantee, like anything promised to me by a salesman, that what they are selling me will work: the obvious, plain understanding of promises made in the Bible that my sin against God is not punishable.
There are no guarantees in life worth the paper they are printed on. This is the classic fear-induced rationale underlying Pascal's wager. It proceeds from an absurd premise that we can control what we truly believe . . . as a choice. We can NOT! We truly believe whatever we truly believe and do not believe what we do not believe. No amount of proclaiming belief will alter that. God cannot be fooled. It is a silly wager and a silly solution. To believe the wrong things is to "miss the mark" (Sin) . . . but God is not holding them against us. What Christian Universalism spreads as the Good News is that God IS love and we will only reap what we have sowed and not repented of in "love of God and each other."
There are no guarantees in life worth the paper they are printed on. This is the classic fear-induced rationale underlying Pascal's wager. It proceeds from an absurd premise that we can control what we truly believe . . . as a choice. We can NOT! We truly believe whatever we truly believe and do not believe what we do not believe. No amount of proclaiming belief will alter that. God cannot be fooled. It is a silly wager and a silly solution. To believe the wrong things is to "miss the mark" (Sin) . . . but God is not holding them against us. What Christian Universalism spreads as the Good News is that God IS love and we will only reap what we have sowed and not repented of in "love of God and each other."
This is not Pascal's wager. I only said that one should be careful when being dogmatic about universalism as the Bible is clearly not settled on the matter. There are plenty of verses that spell out the eternal damnation of some and to brush them aside and call the "all clear" is dangerous at best and declaring a curse on yourself and others at worst.
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