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Old 10-21-2013, 10:16 PM
 
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During the 2nd century of Christianity to die a martyr was highly desirable. Ignatius of Antioch yearned to die a martyr according to one of his letters. They were quite certain of salvation.

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A martyr's death was considered a "baptism in blood," cleansing one of sin, similar to the effect of baptism in water. The "baptism in blood" provides an even greater picture, showing the faith that the martyr has for his/her Savior.[1] Early Christians venerated martyrs as powerful intercessors, and their utterances were treasured as inspired specially by the Holy Spirit.
WIKI
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
When it gets right down to it, I think that most Christians probably don't fear death. Dying, however, is another matter. There is generally fear associated with anything that might be painful. If someone that I knew to have a strong belief in Christ told me that he was afraid of death, I'd probably assume that he meant he was afraid of the process, not the result.
How true. Even Jesus feared in the Garden of Gethsemane and wished the cup of suffering would not have to be. That fear led to depression ["man of sorrows and aquatinted with grief"/depression] as He said, MK 14:34 "And said unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry you here, and watch."

But He overcame by prayer and grace from the Father to except the only plan of the Father. And so shall we in like manner.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:45 PM
 
Location: sumter
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No matter how saved we are, we are still imperfect people. Peter was a disciple who sup with JESUS but yet he denied knowing JESUS three times because he was afraid he would be crucified for knowing him. This is the same Peter of the new testament who was made saint and the first pope. JESUS know our weakness and to be afraid is to be human and I don't believe he will hold that against us. Man will try to hold that against us because he is incapable of the love, understanding ,and the forgiveness that JESUS have for us .
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
.

sadly MANY don't understand what Jehovah God words meant, through his faithful servant and Jesus follower Paul. Here at ,(Heb. 2:14,15), Paul speaks of Jesus ,who WILL destroy satan, as well as death. Paul wasn't speaking of NOT dying in satan's worldly system, here and now. Because MANY will still die, whether they tried their best serve Jehovah God,(Exo. 6:3). and tried hard to follow Jesus, (Luke9:23 and John17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world), or not. MANY of those were NOT afraid to die, because they knew they had the hope of being resurrected. And they knew Jehovah God and Jesus sees death as sleep, which MANY does wake from ,(Dan. 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt). Here,(Psa. 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wiltthou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption). And here, (1 Cor.15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead). They feared death in the sense of NOT having the gift of eternal life. So Paul WASN'T referring to dying in that sense per say.


Then there were does who feared death, in the days of Noah, and the day Sodom and Gomorrah, was destroyed. Though Jesus blood made a way for us to live, through his death , for our sins were wiped clean once we die ,(Rom. 6:7 and Rom. 6:23). with the exception of those who died in day of the Flood, and in Sodom. Because they died at the hands of Jehovah God, they WON'T be resurrected. Jesus showed this when he told his followers to witness about his Father's kingdom from door todoor. What'll happen to those who didn't want to listen ,(Matt.10:5-13 and verses 14,15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city).


So to just being afraid to die, in this sense, doesn't mean one is saved, though many would say it does. Jesus said this ,(Matt.24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall besaved). He didn't mean if one's scared of death, they will live. He meant one who “endures”, basically those who fights off satan MANY tricks ,(Ephe.6:11,12). one who tries hard to do Jesus Father's... WILL ,(Matt.7:21), will be saved). Moses told the Israelites to FEAR Jehovah God ,(Duet. 6:13Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God ,and serve him, and shalt swear by his name).(where there's TWO titles, one should have been a name. It's like saying president , president!, removing his name. Anyway, fear death, basically means to live in a way that pleases Jesus and his Father Jehovah God. This will cause one to be saved, and resurrected even if they die from sickness, old age, etc. peace

Last edited by jojo-50; 10-22-2013 at 04:18 AM.. Reason: when posted words were all together
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:17 AM
 
Location: New England
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
If your fear dieing, are you really currently in the "saved" state?


Can you really call yourself "saved" at this time if your still in fear of death? Wasn't Jesus mission to remove us from the power of death? If we are fearful of dieing then we are still under the bondage of death which comes by the power of death and means that the Devil still has power over us:


Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death WERE all their lifetime subject to bondage.
It seems like everyone is ignoring Hebrews 2:15.
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:56 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
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I don't want to leave my family at the moment. I am not afraid of what happens when I die. but I enjoy life now, and want to keep living. I know I have less than 50 yrs to go, and I gotta make the best of it.
We are to live this life to the fullest, I will fight to live, I will strive to continue. But when my time comes, I will go in peace.
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
2COR 7:5 "For, when we were come into Macedonia, our flesh had no rest, but we were troubled on every side; without were fightings, within were fears." Seems that Paul had times of fear but he was also delivered from those fears. Many a Christian has also experienced temporary fears but God also comes to the rescue.

Temporary setbacks, temporary loss of faith, and temporary fears are no measure that you are a Christian. Salvation is ongoing and does not depend on you but on the Lord, not feelings and emotions which come and go like the wind..
I believe this is the case also, that like when Peter was called Satan, that at those moments we are demonstrating something contrary to the Spirit. My OP is more about embracing of the fear of death. Many people think that they have no need to overcome the fear of death. But that is what Christ is all about.
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I know we disagree, trettep . . . but it is because no one actually believes Christ saved us. They think that what we must do somehow affects whether or not we are saved. It doesn't! NOTHING we do affects whether or not we are saved. Christ took care of that, period. He is the Savior . . . not us. We DO have a responsibility to take full advantage of Christ's achievement . . . sanctification. The words you use, faith, grace, etc.,etc. just reflect a confused understanding of our responsibility to achieve the state of agape love (as imperfect as it may be) . . . so that our Spirit will be in resonance (some imperfect harmonic) with Christ's perfect agape love for us all. That is how we achieve the cover of His grace for our imperfections. It is not some magic derived from saying the right things or claiming to believe the rights things. We have to actually achieve that inner conviction of "love of God and each other" . . . however imperfectly. It is simple physics . . . not magic or the caprice of God or Jesus.
I don't believe that everyone is saved at this time. I believe as stated in the Bible that Faith is the access to grace. I don't believe Grace is accessed any other way. And since not everyone has Faith, then everyone couldn't have obtained the Grace and thus the salvation.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Clanton, AL
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
That phrase "eternal separation" defeats itself. If something is eternal then it remains that way otherwise it cannot be labeled "eternal". That is like saying that something that is immortal can become mortal. If it can become mortal then it was never immortal since immortality implies that what is immortal remains unable to be mortal.

This term "eternal separation" has no biblical justification or support.
I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "eternal". It does not indicate a state of being but a length of time. So "eternal separation" simply explains how long the separation will last.

As for "fearing death". I have seen many older Christians who welcomed death. I think the only real fear if you want to call it that for a Christian is the method of death and the suffering that may be attached to it. While I know the best thing that will ever happen to me in this life is to pass on to my eternal state, I do pray it will be a peaceful passing and not become a hardship on my wife and children. Not to mention I would like to avoid any pain or suffering if possible as well.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Clanton, AL
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Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Wrong.

2 Thess. 1

7 The Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
That is exactly right. The word used in verse 9 means " perpetual, eternal, for ever, everlasting" so that is proof. However there are people who have decided to change the historical meanings of some words to make them fit their theology and I am sure someone will be along to tell you it does not mean what it means.
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