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Old 12-25-2014, 11:45 PM
 
11,289 posts, read 26,213,079 times
Reputation: 11355

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
Wrong again! The commandments, statutes and judgments are to be written into our hearts and minds. King David had God's Holy Spirit and God directed him and He will be in the First Resurrerction and rule under Christ as we read in the prophecies. His instruction book was not the NT but the OT and it is even stated that the OT can provide you with the necessary things to be "throughly furnished unto all good works." The only set of scriptures at the time Paul wrote this was the OT.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


So here we have King David over the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles under King David ruling over each of the 12 tribes of Israel and somehow you think David is some barbarian and the 12 apostles who were with Christ are superior to David spiritually and they should be ruling over King David.

Nonsense. You are deceived. The spiritual law of God has not been done away with but these commandments statutes and laws are to be to written in our hearts and minds and with God's Holy Spirit we can keep them and they will be enforced properly when the Saints are resurrected and ruling with Christ at His return.

And yes, the sin that is subject of this thread will still be a sin no matter how much you protest to the contrary.
Dude get a grip....they're just stories.

 
Old 12-25-2014, 11:55 PM
 
63,833 posts, read 40,118,744 times
Reputation: 7880
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Wrong. The commandments and laws were the "letter " NOT the Spirit. It is the Spirit behind them that we are to learn and follow . . . NOT the "letter that killeth." That Spirit if the Spirit of agape love who IS God. If you had that Spirit guiding you to the truth God has "written in our hearts" . . . al would become clear to you. Sadly you prefer to remain under the veil of ignorance that attends reading the OT that Jesus came to lift. The words "written in ink"and stone under the Old Covenant corrupts your understanding without using the Spirit of agape love to test for the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
What you are trying to say is that Christ DID destroy the law and the prophets and that Christians no longer have to obey God and they can do just as they please so long as they throw in a few good deeds along the way. But this is not true for we read that the true Saints DO keep the Commandments of God (Revelation 14:12).
How on earth did you get THAT from my posts??? The ONLY two commandments Christians must obey are the ones to love God and each other every day and repent when we don't. They represent the Spirit of the earlier ones and expand them enormously. There are so many more things that agape love demands of us than a mere Ten or 613.
Quote:
Ancient Israel did not have the Holy Spirit except for a minority of those that God was working through like King David and the prophets and a few others. So they were basically living by the letter of the law and not the spiritual intent of the law. Christ did not do away with the laws like say adultery. It is still a sin to commit the physical act of adultery but Christ magnified it spiritually so that even if you entertain the thought of adultery in your mind you have broken the spiritual law of God. God's Holy Spirit will open your mind to obey God's Law but the basic instruction of how to live righteously still comes from God and His Word.
We do not disagree here at all. Christ clarified the Spirit of the laws into the Two and they cover far more than the originals. We DO have the Holy Spirit (Comforter) available within our consciousness to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" in agape love. This enables us to see ALL the many ways that the command of agape love places demands on us.
Quote:
King David will be executing his office of ruler over all Israel under Christ with the same set of instructions that the 12 Apostles will be using and they will be in a subordinate position under King David ruling over each of the 12 tribes of Israel and yes, it will still be a capital sin for two men to have sex together and they will be judged according to God's Spiritual standard which will be spiritually magnified instead of done away with like you are suggesting.
I am suggesting nothing is done away with . . . just reinterpreted . . . so I don't know where you are getting these misrepresentations of my views. I have no comment on your King David nonsense. Your homomisia is of no concern to me since I am not inclined that way . . . but I am not sure God feels the same. You usurp God's role when you judge others and pretend that you KNOW what God will do.
 
Old 12-26-2014, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,718,300 times
Reputation: 4674
Quote:
Originally Posted by BishopRidge View Post
Just as Jesus Christ never condoned or approved of sin, Christians must not condone or approve of sin. We are called to resist evil and to avoid sin. The world wants to force Christians to give a little. Reject God a bit. Welcome some sin it it's viewed ok by the world. Christians cannot compromise with the world. That is the real issue here. It is the hatred of the world trying to force those who serve God to give in on some sin.

As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord!

Your sin and my sin is SIN. And I have enough love to tell you the truth just as Jesus would.

I have a personal struggle with the SIN of gluttony. I try to keep it under control. But the most important thing is I recognize and am honest enough to acknowledge it is a sin. Those who deny a Sin is a Sin are liars and murderers and reject God. Plain and simple.

My earnest prayer is that all will recognize their sin and come to Christ, walk with us together as we strive to overcome sin and come to know and give the real love of Christ. Now that is Agape love in action.
If you are a glutton, then you are no different spiritually than a liar, murderer, or, in your eyes, a homosexual. I, too battle with overeating. Any sin puts you on common ground with every other sinner---standing in need of a Savior.

Does accepting Christ as Savior lead to sinless perfection? I don't think so. And because I stand in the muck of sinfulness I need a Savior. I have no problem at all with alcoholic beverages. Does that mean I should start threads about alcoholics being sinners who are harming their families and society, and endangering their lives and, if they drive, the lives of others? Should I cry point my finger at them and tell them they will burn in hell? Will that approach make them want to turn to Jesus?

And all the while that I am self righteously telling alcoholics what sinners they are I am stuffing my face with an extra slab of barbecue ribs, harming myself, contributing to increasing the already outrageous costs of privatized health insurance and feeling good about myself for not being like those disgusting drunks. Should I be trying to set someone else straight on their sin while engaging in my own?

That's what heterosexuals are doing even if they believe homosexuality to be immoral. Every single one of you is engaged in some behavior that is not good in the sight of God. Yet you wish to self righteously berate others for a "sin" which has no pull against your moral fiber while remaining involved in your own sin.

On judgment day when all our sins come to light are we going to protest to God that we told others about their sin while still immersed in our own?

That is the fallacy and lie of all these "homosexuals are evil" threads.

I know I'm evil. I know I need forgiveness, so I treat other sinners with great care and kindness because that is how I want my Savior to treat me. Just as Jesus will not see my sin, I try to not see sin in anyone else.

The only "open season" Jesus had was with religious people who saw themselves as better than others. If one is pointing out another's sin, it is only because he doesn't wish to face his own. It is an attempt to ameliorate the ugliness in one's own soul by claiming someone else is worse.

People are won to Christ not by anyone pointing out how sinful they are--God doesn't need our help in convicting others of their sin. People are won to Christ when one openly admits "I am a sinner, too, and if God can rescue me He can rescue you. He is the one who will guide you in the direction you should go. And if you spend the rest of your life treating others as you wish to be treated, you are well on your way to walking in the steps of Jesus."

I love you if you are a leper. I love you if you are a prisoner. I love you if you in spite of your alcoholism, your gluttony, or your homosexuality. I'm going to treat you with the same respect I wish for myself.

About 400-500 posts ago I related how after the death of my wife's sister one of her daughters eventually came to live with us. She had been with us (at age 12) for about six months when she told our son (same age) about another uncle with whom she had a "secret." He had molested her off and on for two years following her mother's death. Our son, God bless him, told her that was not a secret he could keep and she would either have to tell us or he would.

She finally came to us and there were many tears and much heartbreak in my wife's greater family as we had to face her other sister's husband. He admitted to sexual molestation. The greater family wanted to see the other uncle "get help" from a psychologist and keep it from the authorities. As my niece's guardian I knew that I had a moral obligation, and as it turned out a legal obligation to report it to the police. I sat with my niece as she had to relate numerous incidents that involved everything but intercourse. And she had to relate it to a police officer, a prosecutor, a representative of the cabinet for human resources, and finally a psychologist on different occasions.

My wife's family stood up for her brother-in-law because, they said, taking him away from his family would just mean more misery. On the day in court my wife and I sat with our niece on one side of the courtroom and the rest of her family (my in laws, her brother and other sister) and all my wife's brother-in-law's family sat on the other. We were there in case my brother-in-law recanted and we had to have a trial. But he confessed and the judge sentenced him to five years in the state penitentiary.

And do you know who visited him in prison? His parents? My in-laws? Even his own wife. No they did not. I visited him and prayed with him and took him cigarettes. My niece asked why. I told her I visited him because I loved her and didn't want her to mistakenly believe that anyone's evil action would ever cut them off from God. That treating others with respect and compassion, even if they have harmed us, is the only way to show others that following Christ is serious business. Calling him a pedophile and telling him to rot in prison wouldn't help him look introspectively.

Was it tough for us? You betcha. We were no longer invited to family events--my niece and son basically lost their maternal grandparents for awhile because one son-in-law was "responsible" for sending the other one to jail. I did not fret over it. About three years into his sentence, out of the blue my wife's brother-in-law sent my niece a letter apologizing for what he had done and telling her that she was in no way responsible for anything that had occurred. And that was a huge relief because our niece carried a great deal of guilt that she was partly responsible for the intermittent molestation (she was ten when it began) and she thought she was the reason for our greater family splitting.

But guess what? When you love and don't finger point, when you follow Jesus' command to love even your enemies and treat them with respect, good things happen. At the H.S. Graduation of my niece and son, we invited our in-laws-----and they came. The healing process began in our greater family.

Telling others how awful they are is never an effective way to demonstrate Christ. Loving, respecting, and caring are the path to Christ for the lost, and the road to a closer walk with Jesus for the practitioner.

There is never, ever a reason for a man or woman of God to call any other human being an abomination for anything that person may have done, or to feel justified because somebody wrote it in a codified book two thousand plus years ago. It reflects more on the one doing the name calling than it does on the one it is directed towards.

If I'm going to make a mistake, God grant me the inner strength to make my mistake in loving, accepting, and forgiving. Jesus seemed to do a lot more of that than anything else.
 
Old 12-26-2014, 05:32 AM
 
Location: In the Light of His Love
518 posts, read 470,079 times
Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
If you are a glutton, then you are no different spiritually than a liar, murderer, or, in your eyes, a homosexual. I, too battle with overeating. Any sin puts you on common ground with every other sinner---standing in need of a Savior.
You get my point! We are all sinners in need of a savior. Some of us have come to Christ and admit our sin and do not try and play games with sin. I know my weakness for food so I watch myself carefully to avoid overeating. Just because I can over eat, I choose not to because I know it is a sin. Therefore I choose not to sin. We do fall some times but we do not try and claim our sin is not a sin and that our sin is approved by God. This is the main difference. Also I do not try and justify my sin by pointing out sin in others. That is just a diversion to draw attention away from our own sin rather than deal with it. You see that all the time on this forum.

As for pointing a finger and telling someone they are going to hell, I have seen that done to drunks, prostitutes, gamblers, baby murders and thieves over my life. I know that until they face that fact many of them will never turn away and ask God to forgive them. It is not my witnessing style personally but I do not sugar coat things. I do not support falsehoods and make people feel they are fine committing their sin. I generally try and share our common need to reject sin, all sin, and accept Jesus Christ. Just as Jesus said, "go and sin no more". If we cannot follow the example of Jesus then we are not following Jesus.

In your story I notice you did not pat the sinner on the back and say "that's ok, it's the way God made you". You confronted the sin in an appropriate way. You made sure he faced the consequences for that sin, provided yourself as a witness against him. Once he had to face the sin and it's consequences you were there to help him through it and back to a right position with God. This is the approach we should all take with all sin and sinners. But what if he had just kept saying it was not wrong because that is the way God made him and would continue it? Would you support him in that? It is hard to help someone who denies they have a problem. Pretending someones sin is OK is not love. If you love someone you would want to help them but condoning their sin is harming them. It is just hate.

Last edited by BishopRidge; 12-26-2014 at 06:11 AM..
 
Old 12-26-2014, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Somewhere Out West
2,287 posts, read 2,589,298 times
Reputation: 1956
Warden I tried to rep you for that last post, but I have to spread it around first.

That is one of the best testimonies of the healing power of love I have heard.

Peace and Blessings to you this Christmas Season.
 
Old 12-26-2014, 05:58 AM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,308,641 times
Reputation: 2747
Post #1914. Jesus never threatened drunks, prostitutes or any other person looked upon as sinners by the blind sinners with eternal hell, The Kingdom came to them, they saw, believed and repented. They did something far more than admitting what they had become, they left that life. You in your self judgement are missing the point if you are still prone to being a glutton you are no different to the homosexual that you condemn.

Therefore, thou art inexcusable, O man -- every one who is judging -- for in that in which thou dost judge the other, thyself thou dost condemn, for the same things thou dost practise who art judging,

We are blind leaders of the blind if we are trying to change others from what they are by condemning them as sinners. Let the goodness of God do its perfect work.
 
Old 12-26-2014, 06:12 AM
 
951 posts, read 1,053,636 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
How on earth did you get THAT from my posts??? The ONLY two commandments Christians must obey are the ones to love God and each other every day and repent when we don't. They represent the Spirit of the earlier ones and expand them enormously. There are so many more things that agape love demands of us than a mere Ten or 613.
We do not disagree here at all. Christ clarified the Spirit of the laws into the Two and they cover far more than the originals. We DO have the Holy Spirit (Comforter) available within our consciousness to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" in agape love. This enables us to see ALL the many ways that the command of agape love places demands on us.
I am suggesting nothing is done away with . . . just reinterpreted . . . so I don't know where you are getting these misrepresentations of my views. I have no comment on your King David nonsense. Your homomisia is of no concern to me since I am not inclined that way . . . but I am not sure God feels the same. You usurp God's role when you judge others and pretend that you KNOW what God will do.
No, you were the one who attacked an individual -- me -- and railed against me accusing me of HATRED. You are bearing false witness against me and speaking without knowledge because you do not know me personally. What you are doing is a sin.

Exodus 20:16
(16) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.


I do not hate homosexuals as you have accused. I am speaking out against the sin and not the individual. We do have people who watch over our speech on this forum who will let us know when we cross over the line into hate speech against an individual and believe me they will do their job and let you know if you are doing that -- that's their job.

Now I do hate the sin. I'll give no quarter on the sin itself. These individuals are not being attacked but the sin -- that is what I am attacking.

There is murder being committed all the time in this country. I am against murder. I give no quarter on this sin. It should be eliminated. But I am not hating the individual murderers and railing against them individually. Moderator cut: Abortion discussions belong in the Politics forum.

Now, there are those who try to twist the situation in order to silence those who are speaking out against the sin by falsely accusing them of personal hatred.

God says in His Word that this sin along numerous other abominations actually defile the land and eventually force the people off the land for committing these sins. Read Leviticus 18 and you will discover that this is a transgression that involves Israel only but Gentile nations as well.

So, I am attacking the sin and not the sinner.

You are attacking me and falsely calling me a hate monger and bearing false witness against me and breaking God's Ninth Commandment.

tthttf

Last edited by mensaguy; 12-26-2014 at 08:17 AM.. Reason: Abortion discussions belong in the Politics forum.
 
Old 12-26-2014, 07:14 AM
 
Location: In the Light of His Love
518 posts, read 470,079 times
Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
No, you were the one who attacked an individual -- me -- and railed against me accusing me of HATRED. You are bearing false witness against me and speaking without knowledge because you do not know me personally. What you are doing is a sin.

Exodus 20:16
(16) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.


I do not hate homosexuals as you have accused. I am speaking out against the sin and not the individual. We do have people who watch over our speech on this forum who will let us know when we cross over the line into hate speech against an individual and believe me they will do their job and let you know if you are doing that -- that's their job.

Now I do hate the sin. I'll give no quarter on the sin itself. These individuals are not being attacked but the sin -- that is what I am attacking.

There is murder being committed all the time in this country. I am against murder. I give no quarter on this sin. It should be eliminated. But I am not hating the individual murderers and railing against them individually. Moderator cut: Abortion discussions belong in the Politics forum.

Now, there are those who try to twist the situation in order to silence those who are speaking out against the sin by falsely accusing them of personal hatred.

God says in His Word that this sin along numerous other abominations actually defile the land and eventually force the people off the land for committing these sins. Read Leviticus 18 and you will discover that this is a transgression that involves Israel only but Gentile nations as well.

So, I am attacking the sin and not the sinner.

You are attacking me and falsely calling me a hate monger and bearing false witness against me and breaking God's Ninth Commandment.

tthttf
It seems the mantra of many on this forum is "you must love the sin to love the sinner". It's the only way most of what they say makes any sense.

Last edited by mensaguy; 12-26-2014 at 08:17 AM.. Reason: Abortion discussions belong in the Politics forum.
 
Old 12-26-2014, 07:19 AM
 
951 posts, read 1,053,636 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by BishopRidge View Post
It seems the mantra of many on this forum is "you must love the sin to love the sinner". It's the only way most of what they say makes any sense.
So true!

We are watching our world morally collapse before our very eyes. How long will it be before if any one speaks out against any evil that a mob doesn't rush them and kill them for dare attacking the individuals that commit the evil?
 
Old 12-26-2014, 07:29 AM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,308,641 times
Reputation: 2747
Look beyond the sin to that which is not in others(whether you like it or not there is something that is God in all of us) and you are getting close to how Jesus Christ looked upon folk.

You cannot love the sinner while hating the sin, because if you hate the sin you are hating the sinner. You would judge and condemn sin to the hell you believe in not the sinner, if? You hated sin but loved the sinner.
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