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God did not declare it an abomination . . . men did because they consider it abominable. That really is the underlying issue here as well.
No.
Christ who was the Word spoke to Moses and yes, He declared it an abomination. Moses wrote what He said down in the book of Leviticus.
Leviticus 18:1-22
(1) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
(2) Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the LORD your God.
(3) After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.
(4) Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God.
(5) Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.
(22) Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
John 1:1-14
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
God didn't declare homosexuality to be an abomination. It was one of those sinful Israelites you wrote of who did so. And yes, God always uses weak and often sinful men to accomplish His purpose. That's why He stays away from the morally "righteous" people as you and tthttf perceive yourselves. His use of sinful men points out the whole purpose of Jesus. And Jesus' rejection of the Pharisees and Saducees, their eventual murder of Him, shows just how far away from God self-righteous haters really are.
But you don't have to remain in that condition. You can REALLY study scripture in a scholarly manner avoiding the politician interpreted scripture that Fundamentalist churches most often utilize. No man or woman can fall so far that they cannot be rescued with genuine faith proven by Godly action.
When you get to the point that you cannot fall asleep at night unless you have asked God to put someone in front of you the next day that you can help in some way--with money or time, not just prayer---you will know God is alive in you. And you'll never be wishing God will find someone you can "help" by calling them an abomination.
Until that time you are as lost as any mass murderer. And sadly, a mass murderer doesn't have the same steep hill to climb that you do. He knows he is lost. It's getting bible readers to discover they are lost that is difficult.
The world would be so much better off--and you more than most---if we had followed theologian Soren Kierkegaard's advice to " burn all the bibles." He saw what they were turning people into.
You have demanded your right to "freedom of speech" about homosexuals. It is the same demand of most people who spend little time thinking about what they are going to say.
Wow!
I thought you were calling me just a "garden variety" murderer but now I read that you declaring me a "mass murderer" and now you are suggesting that I burn my Bibles (I guess I would have to burn all my computers as well.)
Can any one ever come up with any more blatant "hate speech" to top your attacks against your fellow forum posters? Adolf Hitler gets better treatment than this. I am just calling for repentance and now you seem to be trying to incite a lynch mob to hang me or burn me at the stake with all my Bibles as fuel, I guess.
Wake up and preach the way of righteousness. We are to repent of all of our sins and live godly lives and not make excuses that we were "born that way" which all of us are truly born the way to be vulnerable to the invisible sway of the Devil unless we resist Satan and come out of our sins.
Satan is the invisible broadcaster of sinful thoughts through the air. His SBS (Satan Broadcasting System - "the prince of the power of the air" is always "on the air") affects all those who are NOT: totally yielded to God, who have God's Holy Spirit and who stay close to God through prayer, Bible study and fasting.
Ephesians 2:1-3
(1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
You need to wake up and become a preacher of righteousness and not a pawn of Satan the Devil and lead people into more unrighteousness.
Repent and get off Satan's wavelength and turn to the True God and the True Christ.
God didn't declare homosexuality to be an abomination. It was one of those sinful Israelites you wrote of who did so. And yes, God always uses weak and often sinful men to accomplish His purpose. That's why He stays away from the morally "righteous" people as you and tthttf perceive yourselves. His use of sinful men points out the whole purpose of Jesus. And Jesus' rejection of the Pharisees and Saducees, their eventual murder of Him, shows just how far away from God self-righteous haters really are.
But you don't have to remain in that condition. You can REALLY study scripture in a scholarly manner avoiding the politician interpreted scripture that Fundamentalist churches most often utilize. No man or woman can fall so far that they cannot be rescued with genuine faith proven by Godly action.
When you get to the point that you cannot fall asleep at night unless you have asked God to put someone in front of you the next day that you can help in some way--with money or time, not just prayer---you will know God is alive in you. And you'll never be wishing God will find someone you can "help" by calling them an abomination.
As someone with the spiritual gift of mercy, I can appreciate your heart for helping people. That is my desire as well and as far as homosexuals, I would never tell them that they are an abomination or hellbound. But I would try to steer them towards a church service where God could do a work in their hearts and open up doors of opportunity. That's where we completely split. You would just rather give acceptance of their sinful lifestyle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Until that time you are as lost as any mass murderer. And sadly, a mass murderer doesn't have the same steep hill to climb that you do. He knows he is lost. It's getting bible readers to discover they are lost that is difficult.
The world would be so much better off--and you more than most---if we had followed theologian Soren Kierkegaard's advice to " burn all the bibles." He saw what they were turning people into.
You have demanded your right to "freedom of speech" about homosexuals. It is the same demand of most people who spend little time thinking about what they are going to say.
There have been many attempts throughout history to try and burn or destroy copies of the Bible. It's sad that you join sides with evil men who want to get rid of God's word. The fact that the Bible has survived and thrived and the verses in this book are amazingly relevant today speaks of its supernatural nature. It is not just dusty old book written by men.
Have mercy! The last time I read this kind of over-the-top hyperbole I was skimming through L. Ron Hubbard's "Battlefield Earth" (Handed to me by a Scientologist who was passing out free copies in hopes, no doubt, of winning converts. - Didn't work. - The Scientologists, BTW, also believe gays need to be "cured". Looks like you have a lot in common.)
Last edited by DewDropInn; 12-23-2014 at 09:09 AM..
The fact that the Bible has survived and thrived and the verses in this book are amazingly relevant today speaks of its supernatural nature. It is not just dusty old book written by men.
The Quran has survived and thrived. In the last 10 years Islam has grown from 1.3 to 1.6 billion adherents. 1.6 billion people believe the Quran is God's Word.
As someone with the spiritual gift of mercy, I can appreciate your heart for helping people. That is my desire as well and as far as homosexuals, I would never tell them that they are an abomination or hellbound. But I would try to steer them towards a church service where God could do a work in their hearts and open up doors of opportunity. That's where we completely split. You would just rather give acceptance of their sinful lifestyle.
There have been many attempts throughout history to try and burn or destroy copies of the Bible. It's sad that you join sides with evil men who want to get rid of God's word. The fact that the Bible has survived and thrived and the verses in this book are amazingly relevant today speaks of its supernatural nature. It is not just dusty old book written by men.
Kierkegaard stood firmly against "cookie cutter" (my term) religion. He had in Denmark what you and tthttf propose for this country--a state controlled religion.
Quote:
Kierkegaard's central problematic was how to become a Christian in Christendom. The task was most difficult for the well-educated, since prevailing educational and cultural institutions tended to produce stereotyped members of “the crowd” rather than to allow individuals to discover their own unique identities.
When an individual appeals to his relationship with God over against the established order that has deified itself, it does indeed seem as if he were making himself more than human. But he is not doing that at all, for he admits, after all, that every human being, unconditionally every person, has and is to have for his part the same relationship with God. Just as little as someone who says that he is in love thereby denies that someone else is in love, so even less does such an individual deny that the others, but as individuals, have a relationship with God. But the established order will not put up with consisting of something as loose as a collection of millions of individuals, each of whom has his relationship with God.
Soren Kierkegaard, Practice in Christianity (1850) p. 91 Hong
That is the practice you propose---a religion that controls the state to the detriment of the individual. One that selects and chooses which people are a part of the crowd and which do not "fit in."
Quote:
---his second authorship would launch an assault against the hypocrisy of Christendom. One should note that by 'Christendom' Kierkegaard did not mean Christianity itself, but rather the official Church which had become indistinguishable from Danish culture and society. -----
The present age is essentially a sensible, reflecting age, devoid of passion, flaring up in superficial, short-lived enthusiasm and prudentially relaxing in indolence. … whereas a passionate age accelerates, raises up, and overthrows, elevates and debases, a reflective apathetic age does the opposite, it stifles and impedes, it levels. Kierkegaard, The Present Age
In every respect Kierkegaard values the individual and the individual's unique relationship to God over the cookie cutter version proposed by modern evangelical churches.
Quote:
Kierkegaard's pamphlets and polemical books, including The Moment, criticized several aspects of church formalities and politics. According to Kierkegaard, the idea of congregations keeps individuals as children since Christians are disinclined from taking the initiative to take responsibility for their own relation to God. He stressed that "Christianity is the individual, here, the single individual."
Furthermore, since the Church was controlled by the State, Kierkegaard believed the State's bureaucratic mission was to increase membership and oversee the welfare of its members. More members would mean more power for the clergymen: a corrupt ideal. This mission would seem at odds with Christianity's true doctrine, which, to Kierkegaard, is to stress the importance of the individual, not the whole. Thus, the state-church political structure is offensive and detrimental to individuals, since anyone can become "Christian" without knowing what it means to be Christian.It is also detrimental to the religion itself since it reduces Christianity to a mere fashionable tradition adhered to by unbelieving "believers", a "herd mentality" of the population, so to speak. Kierkegaard always stressed the importance of the conscience and the use of it.
Kierkegaard was influential on the theological discourses of Paul Tillich and especially Karl Barth.
If you wish to hold God responsible for your decisions regarding other people--stay away from Kierkegaard's wonderful writings. Stay the course with listening to the "crowd" for your thought processes.
It's extremely interesting that an early eighteenth century writer could see in his day and age how the blending of politics with religion results in irresponsibility in both politics AND religion. That is exactly what is occurring in the United States today.
Merry Christmas to all, even to the ones who can't stand my opinion. lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights
Yes! May the Holidays (whatever each and everybody is celebrating) be full of joy.
We are all humans on this earth, and we all deal with the hand we're dealt.
In the words of Spock (I think, cause I'm not a Trekkie. Correct me if I'm wrong), "LIVE LONG AND PROSPER".
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