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I can answer your questions. But first, you must step forward and do your part. I have stated in many posts my belief that homosexuality is a sin -- an abominable sin that unless repented of one who practices this sin will be destroyed forever in the lake of fire -- the 2nd death.
Now, give your complete answer to the question -- is homosexuality a sin? And the follow up question -- Will one be thrown into the lake of fire (the 2nd death) unless one repents of this abominable sin?
tthttf
PS: And thy kingdom is divided, and given to those bringing forth works meet for repentance.
Jesus never says a word about homosexuality, but there was one kind of sin that he spoke out against all the time. There was one kind of sin that got Jesus really mad. It was the sin of religious people who shut out those in need of mercy. This was the sin of people who used the bible as a weapon. You hear Jesus saying this on page after page of the gospels. Why? Because this type of sin has the potential to damage people like few other things do. It is particularly damaging because they claim to be speaking for God. So if we really want to speak out against sin, then we, as I do, speak out against the kind of sin Jesus did--the sin you commit--and I side with the kinds of folks He did.
What this comes down to is we, as Christians, acting like Jesus. It's about discerning what Jesus would want us to do right now, and the answer is clear: we need to change our priorities and focus on the critical issue of loving and accepting people--especially the very people our society so often ostracizes, condemns, and rejects. Because that is exactly what Jesus did. If we want to follow Jesus, then we need to have the same reputation of loving to a fault. We need to be so radically accepting that we are misunderstood and judged by others just like Jesus was. If we really do love Jesus, then we need to love like He did, so much so that it seems "scandalous" in the eyes of religious folks today, just like it did in His day.
Now you may have noticed that I didn't say what I think about whether homosexuality is right or wrong. I didn't say because this is not about me and what I think. It's about Christians learning to care about what Jesus cares about. This is not about gay rights. It's about human rights, and that starts with the least. It's about having the courage to stand with those who are vulnerable. It's about saying "no" to hate, even when it is done in the name of God--especially when it is done in the name of God. It's about having the guts to draw that line in the sand like Jesus did. Even when that means facing the mob ourselves.
That's why I stand up for the gay community. They are the oppressed. Not you. They are refused rights you take for granted. They are made to feel like they are "different," unacceptable, and abominations--all by someone who mistakenly believes he is a Christian. But there has not been a single post by tthff that would give anyone the idea that in his heart he is a Christian. All that comes form his posts are the things Jesus condemned in Pharisees.
Three thousand years ago someone wrote some text that said children should be murdered by their parents if they spoke back to them. That witches should not be suffered to live among them. That eating shrimp and cutting beards and hair was against God's laws. That homosexuals are abominations. I'm sure it was written by people trying to make their own ethnic group different from others, to make it more homogenous. But a thousand years later Jesus came along and changed it all. And no don't quote what Jesus said ABOUT the Old Testament. Quote how He CHANGED the OT. Love your ENEMY as yourself. Judge not lest you be judged. Be careful how you treat that Samaritan (or Muslim, or homosexual, or anyone you despise) because he may be the one to rescue you from the ditch while religious people, so concerned with the "ethics" of biblical words, pass you by.
From the heart proceeds every kind of evil imaginable on the face of the earth. Homosexuality doesn't come from the heart---but the words you write do.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 11-22-2014 at 10:41 PM..
Religion has no relevance in labeling anything as moral or immoral, especially if a religion condones acts such as slavery, migogyny, etc.
Morality comes from having a clear understanding of the world around us and how something affects negatively or possitively people and society. In this sense, science is more important to understand the world around us, something that religion cannot do for us.
At the same time, in most opportunities, it is useless to discuss topics like this with fundamentalists because, as studies have shown, religious fundamentalism tends to affect the parts of the brain that are in charge of reasoning/crcitical thinking. They show less activity in the brain where reasoning takes place.
Religious fundamentalism will soon be classified as a mental disorder.
Religion has no relevance in labeling anything as moral or immoral, especially if a religion condones acts such as slavery, migogyny, etc.
Morality comes from having a clear understanding of the world around us and how something affects negatively or possitively people and society. In this sense, science is more important to understand the world around us, something that religion cannot do for us.
At the same time, in most opportunities, it is useless to discuss topics like this with fundamentalists because, as studies have shown, religious fundamentalism tends to affect the parts of the brain that are in charge of reasoning/crcitical thinking. They show less activity in the brain where reasoning takes place.
Religious fundamentalism will soon be classified as a mental disorder.
And what I have bolded is something Jesus understood very well. It's what differentiated Him from all the high and mighty "religious" leaders of His time.
Jesus never says a word about homosexuality, but there was one kind of sin that he spoke out against all the time. There was one kind of sin that got Jesus really mad. It was the sin of religious people who shut out those in need of mercy. This was the sin of people who used the bible as a weapon. You hear Jesus saying this on page after page of the gospels. Why? Because this type of sin has the potential to damage people like few other things do. It is particularly damaging because they claim to be speaking for God. So if we really want to speak out against sin, then we, as I do, speak out against the kind of sin Jesus did--the sin you commit--and I side with the kinds of folks He did.
What this comes down to is we, as Christians, acting like Jesus. It's about discerning what Jesus would want us to do right now, and the answer is clear: we need to change our priorities and focus on the critical issue of loving and accepting people--especially the very people our society so often ostracizes, condemns, and rejects. Because that is exactly what Jesus did. If we want to follow Jesus, then we need to have the same reputation of loving to a fault. We need to be so radically accepting that we are misunderstood and judged by others just like Jesus was. If we really do love Jesus, then we need to love like He did, so much so that it seems "scandalous" in the eyes of religious folks today, just like it did in His day.
Now you may have noticed that I didn't say what I think about whether homosexuality is right or wrong. I didn't say because this is not about me and what I think. It's about Christians learning to care about what Jesus cares about. This is not about gay rights. It's about human rights, and that starts with the least. It's about having the courage to stand with those who are vulnerable. It's about saying "no" to hate, even when it is done in the name of God--especially when it is done in the name of God. It's about having the guts to draw that line in the sand like Jesus did. Even when that means facing the mob ourselves.
That's why I stand up for the gay community. They are the oppressed. Not you. They are refused rights you take for granted. They are made to feel like they are "different," unacceptable, and abominations--all by someone who mistakenly believes he is a Christian. But there has not been a single post by tthff that would give anyone the idea that in his heart he is a Christian. All that comes form his posts are the things Jesus condemned in Pharisees.
Three thousand years ago someone wrote some text that said children should be murdered by their parents if they spoke back to them. That witches should not be suffered to live among them. That eating shrimp and cutting beards and hair was against God's laws. That homosexuals are abominations. I'm sure it was written by people trying to make their own ethnic group different from others, to make it more homogenous. But a thousand years later Jesus came along and changed it all. And no don't quote what Jesus said ABOUT the Old Testament. Quote how He CHANGED the OT. Love your neighbor as yourself. Judge not lest you be judged. Be careful how you treat that Samaritan (or Muslim, or homosexual, or anyone you despise) because he may be the one to rescue you from the ditch while religious people, so concerned with the "ethics" of biblical words, pass you by.
From the heart proceeds every kind of evil imaginable on the face of the earth. Homosexuality doesn't come from the heart---but the words you write do.
Once again you will not come out and state whether homosexuality is a sin or not.
If you can't judge simple clear cut matters like whether homosexuality is a sin or not how will you be able to rule under King David (who, by the way, kept God's commandments, statutes and judgements, except in the incident of Uriah and Bathsheba) during the Millennial rule of Jesus Christ over maybe 2, 5 or 10 cities?
My mind and spiritual vision is very clear on this subject. Homosexuality is a terrible abominable sin of the worse kind and God speaking through the Word who later became Jesus Christ was correct in the condemnation of this sin along with other abominable sins warning that the land is defiled by homosexuality and other sins and the land itself would vomit out the inhabitants. Don't think you will escape punishment because you are not an active homosexual because your words show that you condone and accept this sin and you are not a true stalwart for God and His pure way of life. Remember Revelation 19:7 about the wife (the Church) of Christ has made herself ready.
Rev 19:7-8
(7) Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
(8) And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Homosexuality and all other abominable sexual sins are NOT righteousness. If you cannot see that then......
When I read scripture like Ezekiel 9 it humbles me because I have found it hard to cry and sigh in the past but God is opening my mind more and more to loathe sin and its effects and maybe I will hate it as much as I should.
Ezekiel 9:1-11
(1) He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.
(2) And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
(3) And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
(4) And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
(5) And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
(6) Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
(7) And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
(8) And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?
(9) Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not.
(10) And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.
(11) And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.
Where is your love and your zeal for the ways of the true God and true Christ? Where? You have read the Bible and you know good and well homosexuality is an abominable sin that it along with other abominable sins cause the inhabitants of the land to be vomited out. Maybe you were just lying about your so called knowledge of the Bible but if you have read the Bible numerous times you know what I am saying is TRUE. 100% TRUE!
Would there be a mark placed on your forehead because you are crying and sighing for all the abominations around you such as homosexuality, adultery and other terrible sins?
You would have me executed like the prophets of old were martyred for daring to point out these terrible sins if you had the power. You despise me and my words. You are calling evil good and condemning the righteous and promoting and approving abominable sin and sinners.
Think about Ezekiel 9 as these sins get worse and worse. It just might shock you into a right mind and maybe you will cry and sigh and speak out against these terrible sins and your life and those you bring to repentance will be spared.
Once again you will not come out and state whether homosexuality is a sin or not.
If you can't judge simple clear cut matters like whether homosexuality is a sin or not how will you be able to rule under King David (who, by the way, kept God's commandments, statutes and judgements, except in the incident of Uriah and Bathsheba) during the Millennial rule of Jesus Christ over maybe 2, 5 or 10 cities?
My mind and spiritual vision is very clear on this subject. Homosexuality is a terrible abominable sin of the worse kind and God speaking through the Word who later became Jesus Christ was correct in the condemnation of this sin along with other abominable sins warning that the land is defiled by homosexuality and other sins and the land itself would vomit out the inhabitants. Don't think you will escape punishment because you are not an active homosexual because your words show that you condone and accept this sin and you are not a true stalwart for God and His pure way of life. Remember Revelation 19:7 about the wife (the Church) of Christ has made herself ready.
Rev 19:7-8
(7) Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
(8) And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Homosexuality and all other abominable sexual sins are NOT righteousness. If you cannot see that then......
When I read scripture like Ezekiel 9 it humbles me because I have found it hard to cry and sigh in the past but God is opening my mind more and more to loathe sin and its effects and maybe I will hate it as much as I should.
Ezekiel 9:1-11
(1) He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.
(2) And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
(3) And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
(4) And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
(5) And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
(6) Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
(7) And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
(8) And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?
(9) Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not.
(10) And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.
(11) And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.
Where is your love and your zeal for the ways of the true God and true Christ? Where? You have read the Bible and you know good and well homosexuality is an abominable sin that it along with other abominable sins cause the inhabitants of the land to be vomited out. Maybe you were just lying about your so called knowledge of the Bible but if you have read the Bible numerous times you know what I am saying is TRUE. 100% TRUE!
Would there be a mark placed on your forehead because you are crying and sighing for all the abominations around you such as homosexuality, adultery and other terrible sins?
You would have me executed like the prophets of old were martyred for daring to point out these terrible sins if you had the power. You despise me and my words. You are calling evil good and condemning the righteous and promoting and approving abominable sin and sinners.
Think about Ezekiel 9 as these sins get worse and worse. It just might shock you into a right mind and maybe you will cry and sigh and speak out against these terrible sins and your life and those you bring to repentance will be spared.
We can only hope.
tthttf
Three thousand years ago someone wrote some text that said children should be murdered by their parents if they spoke back to them. That witches should not be suffered to live among them. That eating shrimp and cutting beards and hair was against God's laws. That homosexuals are abominations. I'm sure it was written by people trying to make their own ethnic group different from others, to make it more homogenous. But a thousand years later Jesus came along and changed it all. And no don't quote what Jesus said ABOUT the Old Testament. Quote how He CHANGED the OT. Love your ENEMY as yourself. Judge not lest you be judged. Be careful how you treat that Samaritan (or Muslim, or homosexual, or anyone you despise) because he may be the one to rescue you from the ditch while religious people, so concerned with the "ethics" of biblical words, pass you by.
From the heart proceeds every kind of evil imaginable on the face of the earth. Homosexuality doesn't come from the heart---but the words you write do.
It's a shame you know the Bible, but you don't know Jesus. That was the problem of the Pharisees whom He condemned regularly.
You believe knowing the Bible and quoting the Bible is the highest good. But Jesus said obeying His commandments were MORE important, and the chief of the commandments was to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and to love thy neighbor like thyself. And then He went on to say LOVE YOUR ENEMIES. You see homosexuals as your enemy--but you surely don't show any love for them. What does the Lord your God demand of you? Sacrifice? Bible memorization? Or to show mercy and justice, and treat others like you want God to treat you?
Three thousand years ago someone wrote some text that said children should be murdered by their parents if they spoke back to them. That witches should not be suffered to live among them. That eating shrimp and cutting beards and hair was against God's laws. That homosexuals are abominations. I'm sure it was written by people trying to make their own ethnic group different from others, to make it more homogenous. But a thousand years later Jesus came along and changed it all. And no don't quote what Jesus said ABOUT the Old Testament. Quote how He CHANGED the OT. Love your ENEMY as yourself. Judge not lest you be judged. Be careful how you treat that Samaritan (or Muslim, or homosexual, or anyone you despise) because he may be the one to rescue you from the ditch while religious people, so concerned with the "ethics" of biblical words, pass you by.
From the heart proceeds every kind of evil imaginable on the face of the earth. Homosexuality doesn't come from the heart---but the words you write do.
It's a shame you know the Bible, but you don't know Jesus. That was the problem of the Pharisees whom He condemned regularly.
You believe knowing the Bible and quoting the Bible is the highest good. But Jesus said obeying His commandments were MORE important, and the chief of the commandments was to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and to love thy neighbor like thyself. And then He went on to say LOVE YOUR ENEMIES. You see homosexuals as your enemy--but you surely don't show any love for them. What does the Lord your God demand of you? Sacrifice? Bible memorization? Or to show mercy and justice, and treat others like you want God to treat you?
Jesus didn't change the Old Testament, by the way. Nothing you mentioned was changed. Jesus pointed away from the traditions of men, and back onto the God of the Old Testament. Might wanna do some more studying.
Also, you consider Jesus' love of sinners his highest goal, and you spend paragraph after paragraph talking about it, but fail to grasp that everything Jesus did was for a spiritual purpose, mainly the salvation of souls. What does it profit any sinner to feel accepted, loved or happiness and lose their soul? Answer: Nothing. In fact, Jesus himself tells us to amputate our limbs if we need to in order to stop from committing sin. Jesus didn't come to accept people, he came to save them for an eternity with Him.
Jesus didn't change the Old Testament, by the way. Nothing you mentioned was changed. Jesus pointed away from the traditions of men, and back onto the God of the Old Testament. Might wanna do some more studying.
Also, you consider Jesus' love of sinners his highest goal, and you spend paragraph after paragraph talking about it, but fail to grasp that everything Jesus did was for a spiritual purpose, mainly the salvation of souls. What does it profit any sinner to feel accepted, loved or happiness and lose their soul? Answer: Nothing. In fact, Jesus himself tells us to amputate our limbs if we need to in order to stop from committing sin. Jesus didn't come to accept people, he came to save them for an eternity with Him.
And where in Scripture did He win people by calling them an abomination?
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,928,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BishopRidge
I have no personal view or opinion on homesuxals. I was speaking about what scripture say's.
What is your view on how applicable that scripture is as to how society should act?
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