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You have a problem with actually taking his word for it? He said himself that he "makes mistakes"...meaning he sins. If he sins, he is NOT obeying God.
Did you send your children to hell for making mistakes, or did you chastise them in loving fashion and welcome them back?
You have a problem with actually taking his word for it? He said himself that he "makes mistakes"...meaning he sins. If he sins, he is NOT obeying God.
You know that imperfect obedience is still obedience, and the point remains that all of us fall short. Giving a strict literal interpretation that makes "obedience" into "perfect obedience" is chicanery, pure and simple.
So you're NOT obeying him? That means, by your words, you do not have the Holy Spirit.
Vizio . . . you cross the line too many times accusing the brethren for someone who purports to be a Pastor. Since Christ's death we all have the Holy Spirit but we do not always follow His guidance. Those imperfections are WHY we need Christ's perfection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
You have a problem with actually taking his word for it? He said himself that he "makes mistakes"...meaning he sins. If he sins, he is NOT obeying God.
It is NOT about obedience. We are not "pets" in obedience training. We are children in the process of maturing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
You know that imperfect obedience is still obedience, and the point remains that all of us fall short. Giving a strict literal interpretation that makes "obedience" into "perfect obedience" is chicanery, pure and simple.
Amen, nate! Christ was necessary BECAUSE we are not perfect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Did you send your children to hell for making mistakes, or did you chastise them in loving fashion and welcome them back?
I fear that Vizio might be one who believes God DOES send His children to Hell, Warden.
The real dilemma is so many believe they are saved when in fact they are not. On that day not only will MANY come before God saying DID WE NOT DO...only to be told GO FROM ME... those many will be SHOCKED by the type of folks who are welcomed into the kingdom.
Excellent post
I agree that watered-down versions of the true gospel of Christ have been some of the worst deceptions of Satan. Jesus makes some very high expectations of His true followers. See a few of these in Matt. 10:[37] He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
[38] And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
[39] He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Also Luke 14:[33] So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he CANNOT be my disciple.
Dr. Michael Brown of the Line of Fire radio program says that the CANNOT in the above passage means almost impossible, as when an airline flight is cancelled, you CANNOT get on your flight.
A watered down gospel will not get us into the kingdom of heaven. Matt. 7:[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Excellent post
I agree that watered-down versions of the true gospel of Christ have been some of the worst deceptions of Satan. Jesus makes some very high expectations of His true followers. See a few of these in Matt. 10:[37] He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
[38] And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
[39] He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Also Luke 14:[33] So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he CANNOT be my disciple.
Dr. Michael Brown of the Line of Fire radio program says that the CANNOT in the above passage means almost impossible, as when an airline flight is cancelled, you CANNOT get on your flight.
A watered down gospel will not get us into the kingdom of heaven. Matt. 7:[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
But they can't acknowledge that or they must admit they are misled and teaching something misleading and that they were not guided by God's spirit and have hurt others.
But they can't acknowledge that or they must admit they are misled and teaching something misleading and that they were not guided by God's spirit and have hurt others.
That is some of the saddest things, that so many are deceived, but their leaders do not acknowledge that they have mislead anyone.
You know that imperfect obedience is still obedience, and the point remains that all of us fall short. Giving a strict literal interpretation that makes "obedience" into "perfect obedience" is chicanery, pure and simple.
Imperfect obedience is still disobedience, nate. James wrote that if we keep the whole Law and fail in only one thing, we break the whole Law. (James 2:10)
The point is that we simply cannot live in obedience. We don't have it in us. Human nature is that we are sinners. Thankfully though, God does not require us to be perfectly obedient. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (Rom 5:8)
If you think Jesus + works = salvation, you're dead wrong. How are you POSSIBLY going to do enough to please a good and perfect God. No...the correct formula is Jesus + NOTHING. He did it all for us.
Imperfect obedience is still disobedience, nate. James wrote that if we keep the whole Law and fail in only one thing, we break the whole Law. (James 2:10)
The point is that we simply cannot live in obedience. We don't have it in us. Human nature is that we are sinners. Thankfully though, God does not require us to be perfectly obedient. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (Rom 5:8)
If you think Jesus + works = salvation, you're dead wrong. How are you POSSIBLY going to do enough to please a good and perfect God. No...the correct formula is Jesus + NOTHING. He did it all for us.
If it were a matter of Law, you would have a point, but there is only one "Law" in the New Covenant. That covenant is about the condition of the heart, the commitment, as you have been told many times.
If it were a matter of Law, you would have a point, but there is only one "Law" in the New Covenant. That covenant is about the condition of the heart, the commitment, as you have been told many times.
The reason Jesus died was to save us from our sin -- which is violations of the OT Mosaic Law. Read Romans. Read Galatians. We are called to faith in Christ. Faith alone saves, not faith + works. (Eph 2:8-9) If you think you can maintain or add to your salvation by obedience...again, you're sadly mistaken.
The reason Jesus died was to save us from our sin -- which is violations of the OT Mosaic Law. Read Romans. Read Galatians. We are called to faith in Christ. Faith alone saves, not faith + works. (Eph 2:8-9) If you think you can maintain or add to your salvation by obedience...again, you're sadly mistaken.
And if you think you can be saved without making that commitment to living in the principles taught by Jesus YOU are sadly mistaken.
You keep doing this even when the difference has been explained to you and you will NOT acknowledge the difference or the need for that commitment.
BTW, "Sin" or missing the mark has a new "mark" in the New Covenant: acting in love.
If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them.
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