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The real person is the immaterial soul which is not produced by the body, but is directly created by God and imparted to the body and resides within the body until it separates from the body at physical death.
The soul is the brain, the identity of the individual...
Jesus was speaking to the little flock( Luke 12:32) here.( Rev 3:21) They are the anointed, the bride of Christ--they are literally numbered=144,000 are bought from the earth-Rev 14:3)
There isn't a single passage saying the great multitude are going to heaven in the bible.
The "real person" is produced by the body and brain but it does NOT reside there any more than the TV program resides in the TV that plays it. It resides in the unified field (God's consciousness).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
The real person is the immaterial soul which is not produced by the body, but is directly created by God and imparted to the body and resides within the body until it separates from the body at physical death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
The soul is the brain, the identity of the individual...
You like to push your personal opinions off on people as though they were fact. But they are simply your personal opinions and are not Biblical. Both the human soul and human spirit are directly created by God. The believer's soul and spirit depart from the body at the point of physical death.
Peter, knowing that he was about to die spoke of being in his dwelling (his body) but of laying aside his dwelling and departing (2 Peter 1:13-14).
Jesus stated that while man can kill the body he cannot kill the soul (Matthew 10:28).
Revelation 6:9-11 shows the souls of Tribulational martyrs in heaven. Therefore their souls and spirits are in existence though their bodies are in the grave.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 says that the spirit returns to God who gave it.
I have no regard for your opinions. I will stay with what the Bible says about the soul and spirit.
Both the human soul and human spirit are directly created by God. The believer's soul and spirit depart from the body at the point of physical death. Peter, knowing that he was about to die spoke of being in his dwelling (his body) but of laying aside his dwelling and departing (2 Peter 1:13-14).
OF course they are created by God, but as a "seed" that must grow and mature to be "born again" as Spirit at the point of physical death.
From Mark 4:26,
. . . Thus is the kingdom of God, as though a man should cast seed into the earth, then sleep and rise, night and day, and the seed should sprout without his knowing it. For of itself the earth bears the crop, first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear.
Quote:
Jesus stated that while man can kill the body he cannot kill the soul (Matthew 10:28). Revelation 6:9-11 shows the souls of Tribulational martyrs in heaven. Therefore their souls and spirits are in existence though their bodies are in the grave. Ecclesiastes 12:7 says that the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Jesus was very clear about births of Flesh and Spirit. .
John 3:3-4 King James Version (KJV)
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
born again = gennaō anōthen
gennaō = conceived, begotten anōthen = from the beginning (over again)
This is clearly another conception and eventual rebirth. We are not given a fully mature Spirit at our birth. It is a seed like any other conception and it must develop and mature to be "born again" at the point of death.
OF course they are created by God, but as a "seed" that must grow and mature to be "born again" as Spirit at the point of physical death.
From Mark 4:26,
. . . Thus is the kingdom of God, as though a man should cast seed into the earth, then sleep and rise, night and day, and the seed should sprout without his knowing it. For of itself the earth bears the crop, first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear. Jesus was very clear about births of Flesh and Spirit. .
John 3:3-4 King James Version (KJV)
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
born again = gennaō anōthen
gennaō = conceived, begotten anōthen = from the beginning (over again)
This is clearly another conception and eventual rebirth. We are not given a fully mature Spirit at our birth. It is a seed like any other conception and it must develop and mature to be "born again" at the point of death.
We've been over this in the past. A person is born again the moment he receives Christ as Savior. Not after he dies physically. Being born again or regenerated occurs at the very moment of faith in Christ. While the new believer is a spiritual baby who God expects to grow up spiritually during his time on this earth, he nevertheless has been spiritually reborn through faith in Christ Jesus at which point the Holy Spirit regenerated him.
Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration (paliggenesia) and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
1 Peter 1:23 for you have been born again (anagennaó; Perfect tense) not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
anagennaó - 'born again' is in the Greek Perfect tense which refers to past action completed with the results continuing on.
'The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.'
Again, being 'born again' or 'regenerated' refers to the spiritual rebirth which takes place at the moment a person receives Jesus as Savior. It is not something that occurs at the point of physical death. You have redefined the meaning of the term to something which is not Biblical.
I will stay with what the Bible says about being born again.
OF course they are created by God, but as a "seed" that must grow and mature to be "born again" as Spirit at the point of physical death.
From Mark 4:26,
. . . Thus is the kingdom of God, as though a man should cast seed into the earth, then sleep and rise, night and day, and the seed should sprout without his knowing it. For of itself the earth bears the crop, first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear. Jesus was very clear about births of Flesh and Spirit. .
John 3:3-4 King James Version (KJV)
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
born again = gennaō anōthen
gennaō = conceived, begotten anōthen = from the beginning (over again)
This is clearly another conception and eventual rebirth. We are not given a fully mature Spirit at our birth. It is a seed like any other conception and it must develop and mature to be "born again" at the point of death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
We've been over this in the past. A person is born again the moment he receives Christ as Savior. Not after he dies physically. Being born again or regenerated occurs at the very moment of faith in Christ. While the new believer is a spiritual baby who God expects to grow up spiritually during his time on this earth, he nevertheless has been spiritually reborn through faith in Christ Jesus at which point the Holy Spirit regenerated him.
The word translated as "born" does NOT mean a birth. It means a "conception" (begotten). We are "born of God" (conceived) when we love.
1 John 4:7 (King James Version)
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
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