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The word translated as "born" does NOT mean a birth. It means a "conception" (begotten). We are "born of God" (conceived) when we love.
1 John 4:7 (King James Version)
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
And my question is, is there any person who has never, at least once in their lifetime, loved someone or something? To me, that means the seed is there. It just takes a lot of nurturing to grow, and to avoid becoming deformed or stunted. (I doubt anyone can avoid that completely, actually).
We've been over this in the past. A person is born again the moment he receives Christ as Savior. Not after he dies physically. Being born again or regenerated occurs at the very moment of faith in Christ. While the new believer is a spiritual baby who God expects to grow up spiritually during his time on this earth, he nevertheless has been spiritually reborn through faith in Christ Jesus at which point the Holy Spirit regenerated him.
Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration (paliggenesia) and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
1 Peter 1:23 for you have been born again (anagennaó; Perfect tense) not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
anagennaó - 'born again' is in the Greek Perfect tense which refers to past action completed with the results continuing on.
'The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.'
Again, being 'born again' or 'regenerated' refers to the spiritual rebirth which takes place at the moment a person receives Jesus as Savior. It is not something that occurs at the point of physical death. You have redefined the meaning of the term to something which is not Biblical.
I will stay with what the Bible says about being born again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The word translated as "born" does NOT mean a birth. It means a "conception" (begotten). We are "born of God" (conceived) when we love.
1 John 4:7 (King James Version)
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
It means a birth as has been shown. You do not get to redefine the meaning in order to suit your personal beliefs.
The word translated as "born" does NOT mean a birth. It means a "conception" (begotten). We are "born of God" (conceived) when we love.
1 John 4:7 (King James Version)
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
It means a birth as has been shown. You do not get to redefine the meaning in order to suit your personal beliefs.
I did not redefine anything. Research "gennaō" for yourself, don't rely on your mentors or those who have preconceived bias about what it SHOULD mean.. It literally means a conception (begotten) . . . NOT an actual birth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
And my question is, is there any person who has never, at least once in their lifetime, loved someone or something? To me, that means the seed is there. It just takes a lot of nurturing to grow, and to avoid becoming deformed or stunted. (I doubt anyone can avoid that completely, actually).
Amen, Pleroo. Anyone who does not realize it is a process that requires development and maturation is just not thinking. The environment in which it tries to develop has a powerful impact on how well it will develop . . . or NOT.
We've been over this in the past. A person is born again the moment he receives Christ as Savior. Not after he dies physically. Being born again or regenerated occurs at the very moment of faith in Christ. While the new believer is a spiritual baby who God expects to grow up spiritually during his time on this earth, he nevertheless has been spiritually reborn through faith in Christ Jesus at which point the Holy Spirit regenerated him.
Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration (paliggenesia) and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
1 Peter 1:23 for you have been born again (anagennaó; Perfect tense) not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
anagennaó - 'born again' is in the Greek Perfect tense which refers to past action completed with the results continuing on.
'The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.'
Again, being 'born again' or 'regenerated' refers to the spiritual rebirth which takes place at the moment a person receives Jesus as Savior. It is not something that occurs at the point of physical death. You have redefined the meaning of the term to something which is not Biblical.
I will stay with what the Bible says about being born again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The word translated as "born" does NOT mean a birth. It means a "conception" (begotten). We are "born of God" (conceived) when we love.
1 John 4:7 (King James Version)
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
It means a birth as has been shown. You do not get to redefine the meaning in order to suit your personal beliefs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I did not redefine anything. Research "gennaō" for yourself, don't rely on your mentors or those who have preconceived bias about what it SHOULD mean.. It literally means a conception (begotten) . . . NOT an actual birth.
Gennaō refers to an actual birth. Do you want to see a definition? Here it is.
HELPS Word-studies
313 anagennáō (from 303 /aná, "up, again," which intensifies 1080 /gennáō, "give birth") – properly, born-again or "born from on high."
313 /anagennáō ("born again, from above") is used twice in the NT (1 Pet 1:3,23) – both times referring to God regenerating a believer (giving a supernatural, new birth).
Can you understand that? - gennáō, "give birth") – properly, born-again or "born from on high."
And every single translation that I have seen translates anagennaó in 1 Peter 1:23 as 'born again.'
Furthermore, as I brought out in post #70, to be born again means to be regenerated as in Titus 3:5. You will notice in the definition above that being born again refers to God regenerating a believer. Now note the definition below which I already posted in post #70 regarding paliggenesÃa - regeneration in Titus 3:5. Regeneration means to be born again. Being born again means to be regenerated.
I did not redefine anything. Research "gennaō" for yourself, don't rely on your mentors or those who have preconceived bias about what it SHOULD mean.. It literally means a conception (begotten) . . . NOT an actual birth.
Amen, Pleroo. Anyone who does not realize it is a process that requires development and maturation is just not thinking. The environment in which it tries to develop has a powerful impact on how well it will develop . . . or NOT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Gennaō refers to an actual birth. Do you want to see a definition? Here it is.
HELPS Word-studies
313 anagennáō (from 303 /aná, "up, again," which intensifies 1080 /gennáō, "give birth") – properly, born-again or "born from on high."
313 /anagennáō ("born again, from above") is used twice in the NT (1 Pet 1:3,23) – both times referring to God regenerating a believer (giving a supernatural, new birth).
And every single translation that I have seen translates anagennaó in 1 Peter 1:23 as 'born again.'
The word we are discussing is the one used by Jesus talking to Nicodemus and that was "gennaō" . . . NOT anagennaō." Begotten is conceived . . . NOT born. Jesus was begotten by God but born of a woman like the rest of us.
The word we are discussing is the one used by Jesus talking to Nicodemus and that was "gennaō" . . . NOT anagennaō." Begotten is conceived . . . NOT born. Jesus was begotten by God but born of a woman like the rest of us.
That is a poor attempt to avoid admitting that you are wrong. Read the definition again.
HELPS Word-studies
313 anagennáō (from 303 /aná, "up, again," which intensifies 1080 /gennáō, "give birth") – properly, born-again or "born from on high."
313 /anagennáō ("born again, from above") is used twice in the NT (1 Pet 1:3,23) – both times referring to God regenerating a believer (giving a supernatural, new birth).
When aná is added to gennáō it means to be born again. Gennáō by itself means to give birth.
Do you want to see a verse where gennáō is used by itself with reference to being born? I will show you one.
John 16:21 "Whenever a woman is in labor she has pain, because her hour has come; but when she gives birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish because of the joy that a child has been born (gennaó; Strongs 1080) into the world.
Actually it's egennēthē - 'has been born', or 'was born,' but the word is Gennáō referring to the birth of a child. Not to its conception.
And again, since it's the real issue here, spiritually speaking a person is born again at the moment he first receives Christ as Savior. Not when he dies physically as you claim.
Last edited by Michael Way; 09-11-2015 at 04:47 PM..
The word we are discussing is the one used by Jesus talking to Nicodemus and that was "gennaō" . . . NOT anagennaō." Begotten is conceived . . . NOT born. Jesus was begotten by God but born of a woman like the rest of us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
That is a poor attempt to avoid admitting that you are wrong. Read the definition again.
We can continue to play "dueling Greek studies" but there will be no convincing you because you NEED to believe it means a birth instead of a conception.
Greek Word Studies : Born (begotten, father of, conceived) (1080)(gennao)
(gennao from genos = offspring, in turn from ginomai = to become) means to beget, to generate. To beget Is spoken of men (Mt 1:2-16), whereas to bear is spoken of women. The passive voice means to be begotten.
The most notable uses of gennao are in the description of Jesus' virgin birth in which He was "conceived (gennao) in her (Mary) of the Holy Spirit." (Mt 1:20). He is described as "begotten (gennao)." (Acts 13:33).
We can continue to play "dueling Greek studies" but there will be no convincing you because you NEED to believe it means a birth instead of a conception.
Greek Word Studies : Born (begotten, father of, conceived) (1080)(gennao)
(gennao from genos = offspring, in turn from ginomai = to become) means to beget, to generate. To beget Is spoken of men (Mt 1:2-16), whereas to bear is spoken of women. The passive voice means to be begotten.
The most notable uses of gennao are in the description of Jesus' virgin birth in which He was "conceived (gennao) in her (Mary) of the Holy Spirit." (Mt 1:20). He is described as "begotten (gennao)." (Acts 13:33).
You have been shown both from definition and from word usage that gennaō refers to birth. Not to mere conception. You have been shown John 16:21 in which the word gennaō is used with regard to a child that has been born. A woman was in labor. But her hour came and she gave birth. The child was born - gennaō.
John 16:21 Whenever a woman is in labor she has pain, because her hour has come; but when she gives birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish because of the joy that a child has been born (gennaó; Strongs 1080) into the world.
You will see the transliterated word egennēthē above the English phrase 'has been born', or was 'born.' You will also see the number 1080. This is Strong's number for the Greek word gennaó. Click on the number and it will come up with the word gennaó.
The apostle John used the word gennaó for someone who had been born.
Your argument is that no one can be born again until they die physically and are reborn as spirit. That claim has been shown to be false. I have already shown from 1 Peter 1:23 that being born again is something that takes place in the past (as of the moment of faith in Christ. It is not something that occurs when you die physically. The word in 1 Peter 1:23 is anagennáō - born again. '
All of this has been shown in the last few posts and prove your argument to be a false claim. You are denying something that is staring you right in the face.
We can continue to play "dueling Greek studies" but there will be no convincing you because you NEED to believe it means a birth instead of a conception.
Greek Word Studies : Born (begotten, father of, conceived) (1080)(gennao)
(gennao from genos = offspring, in turn from ginomai = to become) means to beget, to generate. To beget Is spoken of men (Mt 1:2-16), whereas to bear is spoken of women. The passive voice means to be begotten.
The most notable uses of gennao are in the description of Jesus' virgin birth in which He was "conceived (gennao) in her (Mary) of the Holy Spirit." (Mt 1:20). He is described as "begotten (gennao)." (Acts 13:33).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
[/b]Your argument is that no one can be born again until they die physically and are reborn as spirit. That claim has been shown to be false. I have already shown from 1 Peter 1:23 that being born again is something that takes place in the past (as of the moment of faith in Christ. It is not something that occurs when you die physically. The word in 1 Peter 1:23 is anagennáō - born again. '
All of this has been shown in the last few posts and prove your argument to be a false claim. You are denying something that is staring you right in the face.
You have shown nothing and you keep mixing different words and their meanings with different contexts producing nothing but confusion for you. There is no way you can "be like the wind" while still in a physical body, yet everyone who is born as Spirit can. How do you reconcile that silliness? Why would Jesus emphasize that Flesh is born as Flesh and Spirit is born as Spirit???? Your dogma is getting in the way of your understanding.
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