Why does homosexuality anger conservative Christians more than other sins? (hell, doctrine)
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The thread asked for our opinion on homosexuality and we gave it. I believe the Bible is crystal clear that it is sin. I'm not going to start believing a lie just because you feel the need to shame me.
But that doesn't give you the right to shame, mistreat or discriminate against them.
Show me the verse where it says David had sex with Jonathan.
There is no such verse as far as I know, Jeff. Happy? However, the Bible writers appear to have been most coy when it came to addressing 'sex' in general. They write of 'so and so KNEW so and so' and 'the people of Sodom wanted to KNOW Lot's visitors' and we assume they mean 'sex'. And, just as you determine that 'man lying with man as with a woman' means 'homosexuality', others determine that the passion as described between David and Jonathon also means 'homosexuality'. When I was studying at uni for my social science degree one of the things we constantly had badgered into us was ...read between the lines whenever someone quotes or writes about a particular subject that might be personal to them.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
I want a direct verse.
So do I ...from you and BatistFundie and others. I don't know how many times I've asked the question ...where, from the Bible, is same gender sex spoken of that DOES NOT reference pagan idolatry and temple prostitution? And, for the very same reasons, I cannot produce the verse asked for because it doesn't exist in the 'direct' form asked for.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Don't have it?
No, I don't, Jeff. I can't give you a verse that doesn't exist. You should know how that goes ...
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Then enough of this nonsense. You might as well claim that Moses was raving lunatic that wore women's clothing because hey, I can't prove that he wasn't.
Damn ...I was just about to accuse Moses of just that but then I realized that I couldn't find a Bible verse to back it up ...damn again . . .
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Do you have proof that it is impossible for friends to have a deep love for each other? Got proof of that?
Jeff, you're talking to someone here who has a university social science degree! But, seriously, of course I know it's more than possible and, indeed, oftentimes the case, where same gender friendships become VERY special. However, when reading between the lines (remember that advice being given?) regarding the David and Jonathon story it really does appear to go beyond a 'very special' friendship. You surely, if being honest, will agree with this ...?
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
This is how ridiculous trying to reason past your ugly mockery has become which is truly a poor testimony of being a Christian along with your buddy who told me to go burn in hell because I won't support immorality.
I will admit that there is a smidgin' of mockery at times in my tone with you, Jeff. However, you do lend yourself to a bit of sarcasm due to your militant and personal stance on this subject which, at times, borders on the amusing. I actually don't dislike you and I think that, in real life, you're probably a good guy but I think you really do need to lighten up somewhat, close your Bible if need be since it's having the wrong effect on you, and start to accept homosexual people for who they were designed to be.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Your position is flimsy as tissue paper, but the reality is you NEED David and Jonathan to be gay which is really sad.
Oooo ...I can feel some mockery coming on but I'll refrain from doing so. Jeff, until lately I've never had anything to say about David and Jonathon. I honestly didn't know them personally and I decided to jump in here and talk about them because someone else brought up their names. I don't need David and Jonathon to be gay as their being gay or straight in no way affects the position I've held on this topic - The Bible and homosexuality - from the beginning. That is, the Bible has nothing to say about homosexuality per se since the authors would not have known what homosexuality was. Remember my having said that a thousand and one times?
From the Bible, sin is sin. Period. Nowhere is there talk from God to the effect "this bothers me more than that".
It is man who comes up with the idea of rating sins. Man loves playing God. Man can't resist changing God's ways and teachings to fit a purely human agenda; one that usually gets in the way of loving one another, as commanded.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 12-20-2018 at 07:25 PM..
From the Bible, sin is sin. Period. Nowhere is there talk from God to the effect "this bothers me more than that".
It is man who comes up with the idea of rating sins. Man loves playing God. Man can't resist changing God's ways and teachings to fit a purely human agenda; one that usually gets in the way of loving one another, as commanded.
The point of these 500 pages is that some people tend to get upset when we dare to point out that some things are sin. The people that get all worked up over people calling homosexuality a sin don't seem to get upset when people call adultery a sin. And yes--a Christian can and should call adultery a sin.
No, He really did not bang on about like bible fundamentalists do. He brought it up everytime he sensed/felt the religious establishment of his day were calling it out in someone they thought they was a sinner.
That wasnt the case in the sermon on the mount, and he made this very strong statement about sin.
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If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Matthew 5:29
Jesus makes it clear. There is NOTHING on this earth worth risking going to hell. Nothing.
That wasnt the case in the sermon on the mount, and he made this very strong statement about sin.
Matthew 5:29
Jesus makes it clear. There is NOTHING on this earth worth risking going to hell. Nothing.
Butt(pardon the pun), what Jesus was referrning to be sin is not what you think it is. The sermon on the Mount was and is a full blown lesson on righteous living, not anything to do with sin nor what is or is not sin, or how to stop sinning. Jesus taught the way of his Father not the conversation(sin)* of the religious that do not know or accept the way of the Father.
*That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
He was not referring to the hell you believe, that one does not exist, except in your alienated mind from God.
That wasnt the case in the sermon on the mount, and he made this very strong statement about sin.
Matthew 5:29
Jesus makes it clear. There is NOTHING on this earth worth risking going to hell. Nothing.
Wow ...just wow ...! There is no faith stronger than that of a faith that is based on fear! The above statement speaks volumes as to where you are coming from, Jeff. It explains a great deal. I now realize why TroutDude has several times referred to you as a sad little man. At the moment I'm actually feeling pity for you. Seriously . . .
The bottom line is if you reject the Bible then you are following a false form of Christianity and such teachings will only harm people.
Non-fundamentalists Christians do not "reject" the Bible. It's a BOOK, for God's sake, and I mean that expression literally, or more accurately a collection of writings. Some are good, some are bad. ALL were written by human beings.
It's not God. I hope someday you see that and understand the damage that believing that this collection of writings is literally "God's Word" has done and has the potential to further do.
As strongly as you believe the bolded, I believe the polar opposite.
The point of these 500 pages is that some people tend to get upset when we dare to point out that some things are sin. The people that get all worked up over people calling homosexuality a sin don't seem to get upset when people call adultery a sin. And yes--a Christian can and should call adultery a sin.
Because there's a victim(s).
Duh!
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But, seriously, of course I know it's more than possible and, indeed, oftentimes the case, where same gender friendships become VERY special. However, when reading between the lines (remember that advice being given?) regarding the David and Jonathon story it really does appear to go beyond a 'very special' friendship. You surely, if being honest, will agree with this ...?
