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How did Israel attain the land that they have? They went to war - led by the Lord.
Jesus did not fight the Romans. Why? It was not the will of the Father. It was the will of the Father for Jesus to die and be raised from the dead - not to fight the Romans.
Relate to the Father and Son daily. Follow them through the Holy Spirit. If a situation of war arises - going to war may or may not be what He wants.
Amen, DRob4JC !!
One needs to be fasting and praying in such a situation as what one would do in case of going to war .
Like you said, "If a situation of war arises- going to war may or may not be what He wants."
He tells us to live at peace with all men if possible. So that should be our first utmost thing in our thoughts and actions, amen !! If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Rom.12:18
Yet, there have been times that one would have too choose war in defending that which God has called us to defend !
Believing and acting upon something such as war is a really sensitive thing to discern in what is God's will !
As Jesus' very words state,
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
Therefore we should always remember there is, "A time to love and a time to hate; A time for war and a time for peace. ! "Eccl.3:8
If war is what Jesus wanted, wouldn't it have been left behind as an example to follow? 1 Peter 2:21 says, "In fact, to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving a model for you to follow his steps closely." Verse 23 goes on to say, "When he was being insulted, he did not insult in return. When he was suffering, he did not threaten." Isn't this a good example to follow?
All I am suggesting in your question is to follow God through the Holy Spirit.
Don't confuse personal interactions and countries going to war. Two different issues...
CyberMunchkin above hightlights another aspect - spiritual warfare. How are you on that?
Amen, DRob4JC !!
One needs to be fasting and praying in such a situation as what one would do in case of going to war .
Like you said, "If a situation of war arises- going to war may or may not be what He wants."
He tells us to live at peace with all men if possible. So that should be our first utmost thing in our thoughts and actions, amen !! If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Rom.12:18
Yet, there have been times that one would have too choose war in defending that which God has called us to defend ! Believing and acting upon something such as war is a really sensitive thing to discern in what is God's will !
As Jesus' very words state,
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
Therefore we should always remember there is, "A time to love and a time to hate; A time for war and a time for peace. ! "Eccl.3:8
WOW...simply wow...take a simple metaphor and twist it to fit a personal interpretation of the OT war-god and justify hate and colonialism.
Do we not believe that the war-god is not capable of doing his own fighting??
Jesus told Peter he who wields the sword, dies by the sword---
Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?
Jesus Christ is God. It was the pre-incarnate Jesus who commanded Israel to go to battle when it was necessary to do so. Jesus is the Lord of the armies and that included Israel. God instructed Moses to draft for the Israelite army all eligible males 20 years of age and older (Numbers 1:2-3; 26:2-4).
No, we cannot confine our picture of Jesus to 'what He left behind on earth'. There is much more to Jesus than what is contained in the Gospels.
Until Jesus returns there will be wars and rumors of wars, and nations must be militarily prepared to defend themselves. And believers have a dual citizenship. The believer has a citizenship in heaven, but he is also a citizen of the country in which he lives. As such, he has certain obligations to his country. One being an obligation to defend his country against aggressors.
If you object to believers going to war when necessary on the grounds of being a conscientious objector that's between you and the Lord, but many Christians understand that there is no conflict between being a Christian and going to war when necessary.
"These things I command you, that you love one another. If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you.If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you."-John 15:17-19
Is this not clear that these wars shouldn't concern a Christian?
I do not accept that Jesus is God. Even if I did there are other scriptures in the Hebrew scriptures where the Isrealites didn't fight at all.
"You will not need to fight this battle. Take your position, stand still, and see the salvation of Jehovah in your behalf. O Judah and Jerusalem, do not be afraid or be terrified. Tomorrow go out against them, and Jehovah will be with you.’” - 2 Chronicles 20:17
So there are example of God fighting for His people and His people do no fighting at all. So which one should we do? Take our position but stand still, let God fight? or go to war? If you read the Greek Scriptures (NT) and listen to Jesus commandments we have our answer. We are not to fight. So, the battles over land are over according to Jesus' commandments.
On 'dual citizenship':
“No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other."-Matthew 6:24
"Adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God."-James 4:4
"Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God;"-Romans 13:1
Fights for nations of the world are over and to join them puts a person at odds with God.
All I am suggesting in your question is to follow God through the Holy Spirit.
Don't confuse personal interactions and countries going to war. Two different issues...
CyberMunchkin above hightlights another aspect - spiritual warfare. How are you on that?
But the Bible doesn't separate them as two different issues. It clearly puts how we act towards others is how a person will be identified as a disciple of Jesus. How can blowing someone up or shooting them be anything but personal?
On spiritual warfare, it is not about fighting a person but fighting the false doctrines that are deeply entrenched. "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things."- 2 Corinthians 10:3, 4.
The Bible also says, "you may go on waging the fine warfare, holding faith and a good conscience, which some have thrust aside, resulting in the shipwreck of their faith." - 1 Timothy 1:18 Isn't denying peace as Jesus set the example lead to anything but a shipwreck? What are the state of the nations of the world in today? Is everything working like a nation of God should work? Or do they resemble more like that of a shipwreck? Taking on water. Sinking. People panicking hoping to save the ship somehow.
So faith and a good conscience is how we wage war on evil. Not through physical warfare not through arguments. "The saying is a trustworthy one, and about these things I want you to be positive, in order that those who have believed God may take care to practice good works. These things are good and useful to men; but stand away from foolish arguments and tracings of genealogies and quarreling and fights over the law, for they are useless and futile." - Titus 3:8, 9
Last edited by 2Timothy316; 02-29-2016 at 10:50 AM..
WOW...simply wow...take a simple metaphor and twist it to fit a personal interpretation of the OT war-god and justify hate and colonialism.
Do we not believe that the war-god is not capable of doing his own fighting??
Jesus told Peter he who wields the sword, dies by the sword---
Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?
Yes. I agree. God's dealings with the wicked people of the ancient people of Israel and the nations around it had it's purpose. There were some battles that God told the Jews to fight. There are some battles God told them to do nothing, that He would fight for them. The question is which one should we be following today? Fight or let God fight. If we are following Jesus example, following his commandments and read what is contained in the Greek Scriptures written by the first Christian congregation, we have our answer.
So faith and a good conscience is how we wage war on evil. Not through physical warfare not through arguments. "The saying is a trustworthy one, and about these things I want you to be positive, in order that those who have believed God may take care to practice good works. These things are good and useful to men; but stand away from foolish arguments and tracings of genealogies and quarreling and fights over the law, for they are useless and futile." - Titus 3:8, 9
Side note - while you are agreeing with zthatzmanz - can you inform him of the bold above? I have been called perverted, selfish, and a hypocrite today by him. Thanks.
Side note - while you are agreeing with zthatzmanz - can you inform him of the bold above? I have been called perverted, selfish, and a hypocrite today by him. Thanks.
Ho Ho Ho, the shoes of persecution are a TIGHT fit..gotta read those posts again as I am sure I did not NAME NAMES...
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