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Then WHY does Jesus instruct the wise virgins to go out and find a Jew AS A HOLY SACRIFICE TO GOD THAT THEY ARE THE SACRIFICE, they ARE the offering Mike.
Isaiah 66~ How a gentile becomes a son of oil by offering a Jew as an offering.
You give some of the most ridiculous interpretations to Scripture of anyone who has ever posted on this forum. Jesus never told the wise virgins to find a Jew as a holy sacrifice to God that they are the sacrifice. And a Gentile doesn't become a son of oil by sacrificing a Jew.
And I am not going to side track this thread indulging you in this nonsense.
Funny, the version I read says "10Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makesc his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11After he has suffered,
he will see the light of lifed and be satisfiede ;
by his knowledgef my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
Let's check:The word seems to be conditional and the happy result of the conditional action. The analysis depends on the proper translation of the required action. It would appear that making the offering for sin is that action and the good things listed will come to the "suffering servant" because he does so.
That's not bad, Nate. I believe you've handled the grammatical part nicely and explained it well.
I believe there has been some discussion regarding the Hebrew word "'im", particularly as we see it translated as "when" in some of our English translations. The King James Version, for example, renders the Hebrew as "if" throughout most of the Old Testament. There are a few instances where it is translated "except" or "save". It is translated "surely" in Amos 8:7, and "verily" in Jer 15:11 (just to cite a few examples).
I believe it is rendered correctly as "when" in Isaiah 4:4 and 28:25, and definitely in Psalm 94:18. And there are more, but I just wanted to note that there were some variations, but it is largely rendered "if" or "whether"...
But to answer Richard's question, either way I don't sense any difficulty with the verse in applying it to Jesus. I believe we can still see the eternal plan of God to provide salvation. Once Jesus finished with the work He came to do, He would have an abundant seed. Christ is first Abraham's seed, and those who are Christ's are also Abraham's seed.
Through the redemptive work of Christ, God would have a people for Himself, and His purpose would "prosper in His hand".
You give some of the most ridiculous interpretations to Scripture of anyone who has ever posted on this forum. Jesus never told the wise virgins to find a Jew as a holy sacrifice to God that they are the sacrifice. And a Gentile doesn't become a son of oil by sacrificing a Jew.
And I am not going to side track this thread indulging you in this nonsense.
I didn't say a Gentile becomes a son of Oil by sacrificing a Jew, I was quoting the promise to any Gentile who becomes a servant to Jews after the gentiles had broken the covenant of Jesus.
Jesus speaks in parables and although you can't read it doesn't mean it doesn't mean what it means.
This is speaking of how Christian Gentile begin making Jews the suffering Servant as they begin to smite their fellow servants where Jesus had come to take two men to make one single servant, and when the Gentile has left the covenant of Jesus to convert to Christianity, they begin to smite and abuse the Jews, THEIR FELLOW SERVANTS.
They begin to make the Jews suffer because the Gentiles left the covenant of Jesus and no longer would know the comings and goings of Messiah in his own temple.
The gentiles picked up and left Judaism and the Jews, and now they would begin to persecute and kill the Jew just as Jesus said, but the wise virgin will seek out the promise of Isaiah 66 to become one with a Jew instead of trying to kill him and make him suffer.
Mathew 24 45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Gentiles don't know the appointed comings and goings of the Master because they converted to another religion and so they have to prove the Jew wrong and begin to persecute and kill him because they abandon the covenant of Jesus he comes making with Ephraim and Judah, they are no longer in the covenant and they have to find a Jew to get back in the covenant after they have been persecuting and killing them in making them the suffering servant. This is what the wise virgin knows, instead of persecuting and killing the fellow servant, they come making peace, they come fixing the covenant.
50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth/Gentile court.{Cuts the servant in HALF, separating Jew from Gentile} Jesus came taking Ephraim/Gentiles, and Judah/Jews, to make them one and Gentiles leave the covenant and begin to persecute and kill their fellow servant, the Jew, and this makes him the suffering servant as HE IS, the ONLY servant now.}
This is when Christianity separate from the covenant of Jesus and separating themselves from Jews. Then we are shown the ten virgins of Jesus that are the legal congregation of gentile believers in Jesus.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 07-06-2017 at 05:39 PM..
I didn't say a Gentile becomes a son of Oil by sacrificing a Jew, I was quoting the promise to any Gentile who becomes a servant to Jews after the gentiles had broken the covenant of Jesus.
This is what you said - ''Isaiah 66~ How a gentile becomes a son of oil by offering a Jew as an offering.'' Show where Isaiah 66 says that a Gentile can become a son of oil by offering a Jew as an offering.
Quote:
Jesus speaks in parables and although you can't read it doesn't mean it doesn't mean what it means.
This is simply you claiming to have special understanding of what Jesus said. Empty words.
Quote:
This is speaking of how Christian Gentile begin making Jews the suffering Servant as they begin to smite their fellow servants where Jesus had come to take two men to make one single servant, and when the Gentile has left the covenant of Jesus to convert to Christianity, they begin to smite and abuse the Jews, THEIR FELLOW SERVANTS.
They begin to make the Jews suffer because the Gentiles left the covenant of Jesus and no longer would know the comings and goings of Messiah in his own temple.
The gentiles picked up and left Judaism and the Jews, and now they would begin to persecute and kill the Jew just as Jesus said, but the wise virgin will seek out the promise of Isaiah 66 to become one with a Jew instead of trying to kill him and make him suffer.
Mathew 24 45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Gentiles don't know the appointed comings and goings of the Master because they converted to another religion and so they have to prove the Jew wrong and begin to persecute and kill him because they abandon the covenant of Jesus he comes making with Ephraim and Judah, they are no longer in the covenant and they have to find a Jew to get back in the covenant after they have been persecuting and killing them in making them the suffering servant. This is what the wise virgin knows, instead of persecuting and killing the fellow servant, they come making peace, they come fixing the covenant.
50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth/Gentile court.{Cuts the servant in HALF, separating Jew from Gentile} Jesus came taking Ephraim/Gentiles, and Judah/Jews, to make them one and Gentiles leave the covenant and begin to persecute and kill their fellow servant, the Jew, and this makes him the suffering servant as HE IS, the ONLY servant now.}
This is when Christianity separate from the covenant of Jesus and separating themselves from Jews. Then we are shown the ten virgins of Jesus that are the legal congregation of gentile believers in Jesus.
As I said, you give some of the most ridiculous interpretations to Scriptures of anyone on this forum. And none of this has anything to do with the suffering servant in Isaiah 53.
Last edited by Michael Way; 07-06-2017 at 06:36 PM..
Then provide the reference that you claim you are quoting.
As I said, you give some of the most ridiculous interpretations to Scriptures of anyone on this forum. And none of this has anything to do with the suffering servant in Isaiah 53 being Jesus and not being Israel.
I am in Judaism Mike, I study the Pesach, the Sukkot, Shavuot, I study the religion of Jesus in his 7 feasts and I study the Temple and the comings and going of the Temple BECAUSE I am the Temple, and the comings and going are of me, and every single one of the Parables of Jesus is about the comings and goings of the Temple.
I have no doubt that what I say confuses you or even makes me sound silly to you, but I am in Judaism Mike, I also believe everything Jesus said, including what he says of the law and what Jesus says of the greatest and the least in the kingdom might sound ridiculous to you, but not to me.
Isaiah 66
These ARE GENTILES who have come to fix the covenant between Gentiles and Jews, These Gentiles bring JEWS AS A CLEAN VESSEL, AND AS AN OFFERING TO GOD, AND BECAUSE THEY DID THIS, GOD SAID THAT HE WOULD MAKE SOME OF THESE GENTILES, PRIESTS, EVEN LEVITES.''
This is the extra vessel that a wise gentile virgin of Christ bought, and BECAUSE that wise Gentile has now fixed the covenant between Jew and Gentile, God pours oil on the head of that gentile so he can learn, how do I know God pours oil on his head?
Because when God has chosen you to be one of his priests, THIS IS AUTOMATIC, you have purchased the oil of teaching because you spent your time and money fixing a broken covenant and now you have become one with a Jew. Every priest that God appoints, he automatically pours oil on his head in order for that priest to learn very fast.
The covenant had been broken in Matthew 24 when Gentiles rejected the comings and goings of the Temple, and so the Gentile began beating and persecuting and killing their fellow servant, the Jew, and this left the Jew standing alone as the only servant of God, and they have been the only people who continue to serve God in loving and keeping his commandments, the suffering servant for all these years, but the wise virgin will fix the broken brotherhood. The servant is cut in half, the gentile appointed his lot, and the Jew left alone as the Gentile persecutes their fellow servant that made them one servant.
Isaiah 66, how a Gentile is actually called a Levite. 19And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.21And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 07-06-2017 at 06:54 PM..
I am in Judaism Mike, I study the Pesach, the Sukkot, Shavuot, I study the religion of Jesus in his 7 feasts and I study the Temple and the comings and going of the Temple BECAUSE I am the Temple, and the comings and going are of me, and every single one of the Parables of Jesus is about the comings and goings of the Temple.
I have no doubt that what I say confuses you or even makes me sound silly to you, but I am in Judaism Mike, I also believe everything Jesus said, including what he says of the law and what Jesus says of the greatest and the least in the kingdom might sound ridiculous to you, but not to me.
Isaiah 66
These ARE GENTILES who have come to fix the covenant between Gentiles and Jews, These Gentiles bring JEWS AS A CLEAN VESSEL, AND AS AN OFFERING TO GOD, AND BECAUSE THEY DID THIS, GOD SAID THAT HE WOULD MAKE SOME OF THESE GENTILES, PRIESTS, EVEN LEVITES.''
This is the extra vessel that a wise gentile virgin of Christ bought, and BECAUSE that wise Gentile has now fixed the covenant between Jew and Gentile, God pours oil on the head of that gentile so he can learn, how do I know God pours oil on his head?
Because when God has chosen you to be one of his priests, THIS IS AUTOMATIC, you have purchased the oil of teaching because you spent your time and money fixing a broken covenant and now you have become one with a Jew. Every priest that God appoints, he automatically pours oil on his head in order for that priest to learn very fast.
The covenant had been broken in Matthew 24 when Gentiles rejected the comings and goings of the Temple, and so the Gentile began beating and persecuting and killing their fellow servant, the Jew, and this left the Jew standing alone as the only servant of God, and they have been the only people who continue to serve God in loving and keeping his commandments, the suffering servant for all these years, but the wise virgin will fix the broken brotherhood. The servant is cut in half, the gentile appointed his lot, and the Jew left alone as the Gentile persecutes their fellow servant that made them one servant.
Isaiah 66, how a Gentile is actually called a Levite. 19And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.21And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
All you're doing is claiming to have special understanding of the Scriptures. The only thing you said that is correct is that you sound silly. Isaiah 66 is about the future Millennial kingdom and has nothing to do with Isaiah 53.
All you're doing is claiming to have special understanding of the Scriptures. The only thing you said that is correct is that you sound silly. Isaiah 66 is about the future Millennial kingdom and has nothing to do with Isaiah 53.
Isaiah 66 19And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
So this is not how Gentiles are promised to be appointed as priests and Levites?
Who do you think are gathering the Jews?
Who do you think this promise is to?
This is the greatest promise a Gentile has ever seen, it promises to anoint the head of a Gentile if he performs the duty of a Priest in order to receive the promised oil.{It IS the extra vessel and the oil to be purchased in Matthew 25.
And yes, this is Jesus speaking about the broken covenant after Gentiles have rejected the ways of God to then start beating, persecuting and killing their fellow servant in Christ.
One in Christ 11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
A Temple in the Lord 19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Jesus took Gentiles who came repenting of their disrespect for Torah and he made these Gentile of Ephraim ONE SERVANT.
But 2000 years ago when the Gentiles abandoned the Jews and set into persecuting and killing them, THAT is when the servant was cut in half, BECAUSE one servant rejected the comings and goings of the master, and so Gentiles and Jew is cut in half and separated, and THEN the kingdom becomes like ten virgin gentiles who are the ten legal congregants of a legal congregation of believers in Christ.
AFTER the Gentile has began to beat and persecute his fellow servant, the two are cut in half, and then Gentiles are standing alone, NOT IN THE COVENANT that made the Jew and the Gentile one.
The wise FIX the broken covenant by finding an extra vessel to buy oil, that he will receive the oil from God that begins to teach him that he may see his way in the darkness.
Again, this is not only prophesied to happen, IT DID HAPPEN, Christianity DID separate from Judaism, GENTILE DID REJECT the comings and going of the master, GENTILES DID persecute, and kill the servant of God for 2000 years, and the WISE Virgin KNOWS how to fix that broken covenant.
AGAIN, Christianity persecutes and kills Israel for 2000 years but they don't want to admit it?
It was prophesied to happen, these lawless times, and the suffering of Israel where God will come judge everyone who has made them suffer.
WE are sitting here discussing Judaism, do you know this?
[...]
I am always talking about the religion of a Jewish Messiah in Judaism, is that what you are talking about?
The only purpose you have is to indulge yourself in twisting the whole message of whatever is initially stated by someone, as the scripture(s) they may quote, as in this thread, and use it to belittle, smash it up, as well as the person, to fit an agenda of hate against the Christian belief system.
Your whole purpose is to subjugate others, to disassemble, to put down, to place yourself above God's law of perfect love, to state you have some special interpretation over all others; the arrogance you have displayed to push your version of events which never happened is appalling.
I Thessalonians 2:14-16: "For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ...in Judea; for you suffered the same things from your own...as they did from the Jews who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all men..."
It sounds as if the suffering was in an opposite way, that those who took Jesus as their Savior were the ones being persecuted, being driven out; so much for tolerance, do you have a rainbow also to hold up, that the violence did not start with Christ's believers, but with the opposition.
The only purpose you have is to indulge yourself in twisting the whole message of whatever is initially stated by someone, as the scripture(s) they may quote, as in this thread, and use it to belittle, smash it up, as well as the person, to fit an agenda of hate against the Christian belief system.
Your whole purpose is to subjugate others, to disassemble, to put down, to place yourself above God's law of perfect love, to state you have some special interpretation over all others; the arrogance you have displayed to push your version of events which never happened is appalling.
I Thessalonians 2:14-16: "For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ...in Judea; for you suffered the same things from your own...as they did from the Jews who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all men..."
It sounds as if the suffering was in an opposite way, that those who took Jesus as their Savior were the ones being persecuted, being driven out; so much for tolerance, do you have a rainbow also to hold up, that the violence did not start with Christ's believers, but with the opposition.
Meh, Just flirting with you about Judaism, the religion we are speaking of,
Yom Kippur: Names, Themes, and Idioms
1. Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement)
2. Face to Face
3. The Day (or the Great Day)
4. The Fast
5. The Great Shofar (Shofar HaGadol)
6. Neilah (the closing of the gates)
Come have a face to face with me and see the hand of God for yourself, COME AND SEE!
Many Jews recognize that Isaiah 53 cannot be given a national interpretation but instead refers to an individual. As a matter of fact I already posted what Messianic Jew Michael Brown said about Isaiah 53 in post #16.
The fact of the matter is that most Jews don't know the Bible any better than most Christians.
And many Jews do not recognize it as you say, but I wouldn't expect you to pick the one's who don't.
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