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I'll let you in on a little secret. The internet has saved by Christian sanity, and it is where I come to find meat. In the past, I've had the very great privilege to be involved with some amazing bodies of believers. After moving to the boonies of Alaska, my options for Christian fellowship have been very limited. I read a comment from someone many years ago that kind of put things in perspective for me. The gist was that perhaps God has put me in this place at this time to draw me nearer to Him. I was hungry for meat and didn't always feel like doing my own hunting, so I went to the net. Although I didn't join any forums, I lurked on several and soaked up Christian fellowship and edification. I was introduced to aspects of Scripture that I don't think I would have ever encountered in most church settings, and I think I'm richer for it.
Love this!
Could this (process) be described as 'real' church?
See, I think that's the point thus far.
If you aren't growing and flourishing, is it really church?
(Wow, you have no idea how condemning that last question is on ME!)
Let's take what we see here on the forums.
Certainly more of an 'every member participating' version than we see in the local bodies....at least as a rule.
Now here, we have the problem of so many people who do not believe the bible or have their own version of what they think feels right to them. Let's not get into that, but you know what I mean. On the forums we have an element of 'untruth' which actually probably makes each believer a little sharper, to tell the truth.
But let's say that certain members of this forum (you know who I mean) met in a home or had a private thread that we participated in as we felt led.
How do you think that would 'look' on the outside?
How would it change us?
How would we grow?
For your answer, read (the bulk) of the posts in this very thread.
Blueberry, cg81, Alpha, blue, and the others .. your commentaries are outstanding and really cause one to think and expand one's understanding and reasoning beyond common generalities. A gracious thank you, brothers and sisters
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81
I agree that we need to study.. but isn't the focus on 2 Tim 2:15 on studying and learning more about God and His Word, rather than the proper or best way to rationally present it? The same with 1 Peter 3:15...(the first part of that verse says "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be prepared...) We need to have God's Word in our heart, and thus have an answer for every man. The Spirit will bring these scriptures to mind.. I'm sure we've all experienced this. IMO, to learn how to use persuasive arguments or rhetoric can very easily take the focus off God and place it on man. I believe Paul's focus in 1 Corinthians 1 and 2 was much deeper than simply the Greek's type of speaking.. it was the "intellectual" or "man-conscious" spirit behind it.
1 Cor 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
(and that, to the Greeks, was foolishness..)
The next chapter goes along very well with this one...
Oh, good, I was really hoping someone would call me on that!!! For the sake of brevity (for which I'm NOT known! ), I limited the meaning of the passages to support my point. The absolutely clearest and simplest meaning of those passages are exactly what you've said. If we hide God's Word in our hearts and let the Spirit lead us, Christians can be adequately prepared to present the gospel. We're even told not to worry if we're to appear before authorities because the Holy Spirit will teach us what to say. (Luke 12:11-12)
The verse in 1 Peter, though, I think calls Christians to a higher standard of preparation. It talks about being able to give a defense (not simply share our beliefs or present the gospel), and we should be able to give a defense to everyone who asks us for a reason for the hope within us. Some people are easier to persuade than others. From my observations, I think most Christians today are woefully unprepared to defend their views. ("That's the pastor's job.") In this sense, I agree with the authors when they state that the body isn't adequately being equipped within the local assembly. However, clergy are being equipped to do this in classes like homiletics (which the author seems to disdain). I think getting the clergy adequately equipped is an excellent first step, then the good shepherd clergy will work on getting his flock adequately prepared.
In this sense, I agree with the authors when they state that the body isn't adequately being equipped within the local assembly. However, clergy are being equipped to do this in classes like homiletics (which the author seems to disdain). I think getting the clergy adequately equipped is an excellent first step, then the good shepherd clergy will work on getting his flock adequately prepared.
In theory, I totally agree with you.
In practice, I'm not sure we've moved forward in this area in 2000 years, ya know?
QUICK EDIT: What would it look like if we equipped the clergy and the flock simultaneously....or even better.....what if they were synonymous?
QUICK EDIT: What would it look like if we equipped the clergy and the flock simultaneously....or even better.....what if they were synonymous?
One of my favorite verses relating to the church..
Romans 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
I think chapter five would fit really well into this discussion... I'm ready to move forward!
OK.
If everyone's ready and has read 5, let's move on. If not, try and read it tonight and join in the morning!
cg81, this is straight from the discussion guide but it's a great question:
Have the authors convinced you that Scripture does not support the role of pastor in its contemporary form? If so, why? If not, which of their biblical and historical arguments do you find flawed?
The verse in 1 Peter, though, I think calls Christians to a higher standard of preparation. It talks about being able to give a defense (not simply share our beliefs or present the gospel), and we should be able to give a defense to everyone who asks us for a reason for the hope within us.
Sorry about my numerous small posts here, but just some thoughts..
I completely agree with you that we as Christians have a need to be prepared. We need to study God's Word, and know it in our hearts firsthand. But isn't the Sword of the Spirit the best defense? I really do not think we need anything more than that. Actually, I don't think there is anything superior to that.
If everyone's ready and has read 5, let's move on. If not, try and read it tonight and join in the morning!
cg81, this is straight from the discussion guide but it's a great question:
Have the authors convinced you that Scripture does not support the role of pastor in its contemporary form? If so, why? If not, which of their biblical and historical arguments do you find flawed?
This is a big subject, and I have alot of thoughts on it which I hope I can bring together. For right now, I'll say that the contemporary pastor's role is not what I believe God had (has) in mind. I'll hopefully bring some more thots soon.
But did anyone else feel impressed (or burdened) to pray for the pastors in their tremendous task, while reading this chapter?
Be back soon (hopefully). Need to attend to a few things..
IMO, if I am growing, flourishing, because of the knowledge of Christ and his teachings that we discuss here, I am in fellowship with the Church.. If I feel I have been ministered or witnessed to, I am part of the active Church.. If someone "tells" me I make them feel good in the Lord, I have ministered in the active Church..I am so grateful to this forum, and the longer I am here and the more I learn and share, the more I feel at peace with who I am and my place in the Lords work..I feel stronger in my faith, because I feel that God has shown me that I don't have to hide my faith and beliefs in order to keep peace within my family. Do we really have to see and touch each other to be in fellowship, sharing, ministering and praising God when we come here searching for fellowship with the Church? Are we perhaps "seeing" better without all the pomp and circumstance of the Sunday morning sermons..Are we perhaps being led by the spirit to come out of that habit once in awhile..Are we learning that in order to have our eyes opened we have to be able to leave the box that we have been in and leave the traditions and habits there.
I am ready to move on to chapter 5...Later this evening..Gotta fix supper
Last edited by Miss Blue; 05-07-2008 at 01:23 PM..
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), I limited the meaning of the passages to support my point. The absolutely clearest and simplest meaning of those passages are exactly what you've said. If we hide God's Word in our hearts and let the Spirit lead us, Christians can be adequately prepared to present the gospel. We're even told not to worry if we're to appear before authorities because the Holy Spirit will teach us what to say. (Luke 12:11-12)
