ET or Annhialiation is NOT the spreading of "fear". (Moses, prayers)
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Lastly...I would not ever mentally place June anywhere near the place I have mentally placed you and others who come on here and teach lies...June doesn't do that...which places her far above in character than any of you!
Since I am probably included in this slander (technically libel since it is written) . . . I must respond yet again and strive to educate you, Verna, about what a "lie" is. A lie is NOT what you don't believe, Verna . . . a lie is a DELIBERATE falsehood from someone who KNOWS it is NOT the truth. NONE of us that you refer to here are lying. We believe what we are saying to be the truth . . . as do you. I have not called you a liar because you believe differently because I know you actually believe what you are saying to be true. If you did NOT believe it . . . and you said it . . . THAT would be a lie.
Since I am probably included in this slander . . . I must respond yet again and strive to educate you, Verna, about what a "lie" is. A lie is NOT what you don't believe, Verna . . . a lie is a DELIBERATE falsehood from someone who KNOWS it is NOT the truth. NONE of us that you refer to here are lying. We believe what we are saying to be the truth . . . as do you. I have not called you a liar because you believe differently because I know you actually believe what you are saying to be true. If you did NOT believe it . . . and you said it . . . THAT would be a lie.
Yea, that is true. I am sorry if I have called any of you a liar. Please accept my apologies.
Spm seems to have taken on the position of speaking for others now...I'll tell you right here, so everyone can see...I love you June, and you know it...and only you and I know what has been said between the two of us concerning spiritual things...and it will stay between me and you..forever!
Sorry, verna but you either have the guts to stand up for what you believe or you don`t. I`m not speaking for you verna I`m stating what you have arrogantly proclaimed over and over on this very public forum. Perhaps now you are somewhat embarrassed or ashamed by the things you have said about people who do not believe as you do. June is someone who has stated on this public forum that she does not believe in Jesus as her personal savior (she is an atheist).You have stated on here many times what God will do to people who do not believe as you do. June is one of those people. It seems, you are now embarrassed by your statements.
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spm...I would appreciate it very much if you would not speak for me concerning anything, thank you. I can speak quite well for myself.
This is a public forum and I am just quoting your beliefs. If I have said something that is not what you believe, then by all means correct me and I will apologize. Just like I did to Hot,who admitted that he does not hold to your beliefs. If this was a court of law, you would not have a case at all. You have typed enough nonsense on here for all to see. I`m just stating what you have already said many times over. If you are ashmed of your beliefs than perhaps you should revisit them.
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Lastly...I would not ever mentally place June anywhere near the place I have mentally placed you and others who come on here and teach lies...June doesn't do that...which places her far above in character than any of you!
So when June in affect says(because she is an atheist) that she doesn`t believe as you do. She doesn`t believe in hell. She doesn`t believe that the only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ. But I(spm) believe that Jesus is the savior of the world, and I believe that the only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ then you don`t hold june and I in the same mental place? You place her far above character than me? I believe June probably is far superior to me in character. I wouldn`t question that in the least.
But it says a lot about your belief and character verna. It says a lot about where your heart is at. Perhaps you are afraid,embarrassed,and ashamed to PUBLICLY confront an atheist with your truth about them. I can certainly understand why. Especially when it is someone that you like very much, and that is my point. You and latte have proven my point very well, which I knew you would.
You apologized for lumping me in with the ET crowd, and for that I accept it. But you still just a few posts later, spoke for me again:
Where did I say June will be annihilated?
So, you are saying you do not believe in ET, you do not believe in annihilation,you do not belive in universalism ( you`ve made that quite clear),what exactly do you believe?
Since I am probably included in this slander (technically libel since it is written) . . . I must respond yet again and strive to educate you, Verna, about what a "lie" is. A lie is NOT what you don't believe, Verna . . . a lie is a DELIBERATE falsehood from someone who KNOWS it is NOT the truth. NONE of us that you refer to here are lying. We believe what we are saying to be the truth . . . as do you. I have not called you a liar because you believe differently because I know you actually believe what you are saying to be true. If you did NOT believe it . . . and you said it . . . THAT would be a lie.
Defensive..... LOL, I answer your arrogant questions
sorry if you think my questions are arrogant. Of course I could say the same thing about your questions.
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Yes, it is easier to share the gospel to people you know personally! And a little different to those whom you don't. But I have, because I have been led by the Holy Spirit to do so. When He leads you, it is actually really cool and wonderful thing, a lot of good things happen!!!
Speaking of arrogance,that is the tone of your post, not this one. So, I`m just pointing out that it is easy to be arrogant and condescending about throwing people like hitler,stalin,or me into fiery pit for eternity but quite another to those who you like or love. That`s why most ET`ers never dream any of their loved ones are going there and so easy for them to throw everybody else and their brother in there and proclaim it with such boldness and self assurance. But it`s quite a different story when speaking to someone on a personal level.
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By the way how many people have you witness to for Jesus Christ?
I haven`t kept track but I don`t go around knocking on doors if that is what you are asking. But then again, my belief is different from yours. Remember, I`m one of those guys who are going to hell because I believe Jesus is the savior of ALL men,especially those that believe.
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Come on spm62 lets here your story? You know so much about me, I like to know a little about you.
I`ve posted my story on here a couple of times. I will again if you like. BTW, I know very little about you other than your zeal for ET.
Yes . . . and I am extremely knowledgeable about it . . . far beyond the average seminary graduate. What is your point? Please don't tell me you are going to continue to maintain I am LYING because YOU do NOT believe my interpretations of the spiritual significance and status of scripture, Verna. I will surely lose all patience with you and have to revise my opinion of your loving nature . . . and of which spirit is influencing your beliefs.
So, you are saying you do not believe in ET, you do not believe in annihilation,you do not belive in universalism ( you`ve make that quite clear),what exactly do you believe?
I do believe in annihilation, mingled with a "form" of LR. LR is something I just now made up. Limited Restoration for those who DO NOT know the Way of Christ, and not called by the Spirit, but yet are not wicked and unChristlike. Like June, for example. If God calls her one day, it is for Him. If He doesn't call her, is she doomed to destruction, because He didn't? I think not. Remember the "twice the son of hell" people who come into religion? I believe these are pure hearted people, who are seduced by religion, and then their pure heart is taken away.
Without the Law these people cannot be held accountable to the Law. There is no tutor, therefore there cannot be accountablility held against them.
Those I see being annihilated are the wicked, evil, perverse people. Romans 2:14-16 said those without the Law are a law unto themselves. So what? Are they held accountable to their beliefs and morals? I would think so, and Romans says so. But alas, I am not sure of the outcome, which is why I do not go around proclaiming my version of the truth, as the absolute truth.
Also, I believe those who blaspheme God or His Son, or is Spirit, are without excuse, and will be gone, forever. The unforgivable sin. Some say this cannot happen, as all sins are forgivable, but clearly Jesus said there was this one that wasn't. So these also will be annihilated.
But hey, this is only the truth as it has been revealed to me, and no one should take this as an absolute.
But on the other hand, the reason I am opposed to those who teach the full teaching of UR, is that the Word does not "entirely" support this doctrine. And those who do support it, do so with such a feverent unbridled passion, that they expouse this as THE absolute Truth. Very dangerous indeed. If this was the case, why did not the church teach this for a couple of thousand years? Dark ages does not stop the Spirit of God. We all should know this, otherwise the Gospel would be dead by now, by those in power.
So, hopefully this clarifies a few things about me. Some of what I believe would also be heretic in most Christian circles, but this is the reason it is my journey, and my search, my truth. I don't push this belief on anyone, as no one knows for sure. They are not dead, and talking.
I do believe in annihilation, mingled with a "form" of LR. LR is something I just now made up. Limited Restoration for those who DO NOT know the Way of Christ, and not called by the Spirit, but yet are not wicked and unChristlike. Like June, for example. If God calls her one day, it is for Him. If He doesn't call her, is she doomed to destruction, because He didn't? I think not. Remember the "twice the son of hell" people who come into religion? I believe these are pure hearted people, who are seduced by religion, and then their pure heart is taken away.
Without the Law these people cannot be held accountable to the Law. There is no tutor, therefore there cannot be accountablility held against them.
Those I see being annihilated are the wicked, evil, perverse people. Romans 2:14-16 said those without the Law are a law unto themselves. So what? Are they held accountable to their beliefs and morals? I would think so, and Romans says so. But alas, I am not sure of the outcome, which is why I do not go around proclaiming my version of the truth, as the absolute truth.
Also, I believe those who blaspheme God or His Son, or is Spirit, are without excuse, and will be gone, forever. The unforgivable sin. Some say this cannot happen, as all sins are forgivable, but clearly Jesus said there was this one that wasn't. So these also will be annihilated.
But hey, this is only the truth as it has been revealed to me, and no one should take this as an absolute.
But on the other hand, the reason I am opposed to those who teach the full teaching of UR, is that the Word does not "entirely" support this doctrine. And those who do support it, do so with such a feverent unbridled passion, that they expouse this as THE absolute Truth. Very dangerous indeed. If this was the case, why did not the church teach this for a couple of thousand years? Dark ages does not stop the Spirit of God. We all should know this, otherwise the Gospel would be dead by now, by those in power.
So, hopefully this clarifies a few things about me. Some of what I believe would also be heretic in most Christian circles, but this is the reason it is my journey, and my search, my truth. I don't push this belief on anyone, as no one knows for sure. They are not dead, and talking.
I also, from scripture, have ascertained what you call Limited Restoration as well . . . and your explanation of it was well written . . .I share this belief, but have had a hard time communicating that belief in the concise manner that you have . . .
Here in the bible belt, I spoke about my beliefs to a few at a club I joined . . . need I say that I was looked at in horror . . .
My beliefs are my truths at the present time, I do not want to push them down someone's throat as the be all and end all Truth . . . I am earnestly seeking God's wisdom (not my own wishes, or man's views, or orgnized religions views), and he has enlightened me from what I feel is the untruth of ET, and the partial truth of UR (in my humble opinion) . . . and I see annihilation of those who blatantly reject God's invitation, or openly mock him . . . Do not be deceived, God will not, not, be mocked.
Sorry, verna but you either have the guts to stand up for what you believe or you don`t.
I have no problem at all standing up for what I believe in spm...where I stand is no secret..is it?
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Originally Posted by spm
I`m not speaking for you verna I`m stating what you have arrogantly proclaimed over and over on this very public forum.
No, you're wrong. You're saying I've said something about June personally that I have never said.
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Originally Posted by spm
Perhaps now you are somewhat embarrassed or ashamed by the things you have said about people who do not believe as you do.
Nope...not one bit. Truth is truth...and lies are lies. I have God's Word behind me..what do you have?
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Originally Posted by spm
June is someone who has stated on this public forum that she does not believe in Jesus as her personal savior (she is an atheist).
Yes she has...she's been very upfront and honest..always...I respect that.
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Originally Posted by spm
You have stated on here many times what God will do to people who do not believe as you do.
I stand up for what I know is the Word of God...and I always will...till the day I die.
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Originally Posted by spm
June is one of those people.
Yes...she is...I pray for her every night...as I do you.
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Originally Posted by spm
It seems, you are now embarrassed by your statements.
You only wish...but you could not be more wrong.
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Originally Posted by spm
This is a public forum and I am just quoting your beliefs. If I have said something that is not what you believe, then by all means correct me and I will apologize.
No, you assigned the name of someone I respect in their beliefs and in their character and heart...who I love...and you have no right. You are way out of line.
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Originally Posted by spm
Just like I did to Hot,who admitted that he does not hold to your beliefs. If this was a court of law, you would not have a case at all.
Sure I would, and I'd win.
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Originally Posted by spm
You have typed enough nonsense on here for all to see. I`m just stating what you have already said many times over. If you are ashmed of your beliefs than perhaps you should revisit them.
I stand on everything I've said...it is the Word of God, not mine, your beef is with God, not me.
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Originally Posted by spm
So when June in affect says(because she is an atheist) that she doesn`t believe as you do. She doesn`t believe in hell. She doesn`t believe that the only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ.
Now you are speaking for June...why don't you just stick to your own warped set of beliefs and deal with them on your own?
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Originally Posted by spm
But I(spm) believe that Jesus is the savior of the world, and I believe that the only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ then you don`t hold june and I in the same mental place? You place her far above character than me?
She tells the truth...you lie...big difference.
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Originally Posted by spm
But it says a lot about your belief and character verna. It says a lot about where your heart is at. Perhaps you are afraid,embarrassed,and ashamed to PUBLICLY confront an atheist with your truth about them. I can certainly understand why. Especially when it is someone that you like very much, and that is my point. You and latte have proven my point very well, which I knew you would.
You know nothing. Stop speaking for me.
Last edited by Verna Perry; 10-14-2009 at 09:38 PM..
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LOL, I answer your arrogant questions
