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Snow? Are you serious? You think the industrial base of upstate NY declined because of snow? Upstate has no more snow today than it had 50-100-150 years ago. Sure, retirees often move for weather, but the rest of us move where the economic opportunities are. You think people originally settled Buffalo because they liked the weather?
I think people settled BUF because of the Erie canal and at the time it was considered the Gateway to the "West" - west at that time being Chicago. The Barge Canal continued that. Lincoln was considered a "western politician". The moment Cornelius Vanderbilt laid his first railroad track, the death knell for upstate NY began to ring. It was no longer the center of the USA and it changed from being the crossroads of the US to being a few small cities north of NYC. As soon as the Eisenhower highway system was laid out, the last nail in upstate NY's coffin went in.
Better weather, accessibility to the rest of the USA drove business out of NY, as well as its population - including me. Once highways, airports and functional air conditioning was developed, the parka went out of style. That's why only the most richly developed cities - NY, BOS, CHI and PHL (barely) in the northeast still thrive. They thrive due to their cultural assets despite the weather. Since Upstate NY, Western NE, OH, all of IL etc lack cultural assets, they have no draw, only snow. My bet is North Dakota, Alaska, and Montana's tax rates are just as reasonable as GA, or TX and probably better than FL, and definitely better than CA. But guess where people are going? To the best tax havens? No - to the SUNbelt. Hello?
You can cut the taxes all you want but Ross Perot is not going to come running to the snow belt. Nor will NASA launch from Utica. To imagine such is just fantasy. Or perhaps a posturing demagogue's snowjob.
Didn't Kodak shut down the Rochester plant years ago?
Kodak is still in Rochester. The employment is down to around 10-15,000 now and it is behind Strong health and Wegmans for employment.
Rochester has fared better than Buffalo economically because many of the Kodak, Bauche and Zerox workers were already skilled and some started up their own firms or went back to school.
The difference with Buffalo was the fact that Buffalo was a huge steel and manufacturing center and is having a rough time recovering
Ignoring the delusional impressions that some NYC residents (or outsiders) have of Upstate, clearly my remark about London was not understood.
In the 19th century, London was the financial capital of the world. Period.
New York City - for now - occupies the position that London (and Amsterdam before it) formerly had.
New York City will not make it through the first half of this current century as the world's financial capital. Sorry to burst your self-important bubble.
What makes you so sure? SMH another upstater hating on a city within his own state An embarrassment to the state of new york
Weather may have changed some minds, but really has no affect on a cities decline. A fat wallet is what changes your mind. If I had a six figure income I would live in a desert.
Kodak is still in Rochester. The employment is down to around 10-15,000 now and it is behind Strong health and Wegmans for employment.
Rochester has fared better than Buffalo economically because many of the Kodak, Bauche and Zerox workers were already skilled and some started up their own firms or went back to school.
The difference with Buffalo was the fact that Buffalo was a huge steel and manufacturing center and is having a rough time recovering
For Rochester that is true, Kodak is actually down to 7000-8000 people in the Rochester metro. Alot of people complain about how much Kodak has shrunk. However they never look into the business that spun off from Kodak or started as a result of Kodak. Johnson and Johnson now has a huge presense in the area because Kodak spun off their x-ray division. J&J now does blood plasms and r&D in the area.
The other poster was closer to the answer when it came to Buffalos decline. To answer that, you really have to look at what made Buffalo strong. Originally, a good port/the Erie Canal, then the railroads, cheap power from Niagara Falls, cheap labor from NYC/Europe, less regulations/taxes then other states (hard to believe huh) and the center of many trade routes.
So lets think about this. The Erie canal is obviously just used for recreation nowadays, the port was cut off by the st Lawrence seaway. The government decided to invest in airports and interstates because of the cold war, rather than railroads. Niagara Falls still offers an abundance of power, but you can set up a nuclear or coal power plant anywhere now. We have labor laws, workers rights, restricted immigration, unions etc. And finally too many taxes/regulations after everything else has been stripped from the city.
Most people think Buffalo declined because of taxes and regulations, there is far more to it. Buffalo was interconnected to every major city on the Great Lakes and NYC. The decline of industry ment a decline in shipping. Everytime there was a depression Buffalo took a HUGE hit, and there is much in writing about this. A slowdown in Chicago ment Buffalo had less moving through the city. The expansion of roadways, therefore, really had an impact on the city.
Buffalo never would have become a major city without the Erie canal, no way, no how. The government decided a long time ago, that an interstate canal would be better than the St Lawrence seaway. The St Lawrence was prone to attack from Canada/the British and there was a chance product could be exchanged by Canadas ports. Everyone upstate really owes it to DeWitt Clinton, we really need a statue of the guy somewhere. Because without him, half the cities and towns in NY would fail to exist.
So enough of this, how to we fix present day problems.
I think people settled BUF because of the Erie canal and at the time it was considered the Gateway to the "West" - west at that time being Chicago. The Barge Canal continued that. Lincoln was considered a "western politician". The moment Cornelius Vanderbilt laid his first railroad track, the death knell for upstate NY began to ring. It was no longer the center of the USA and it changed from being the crossroads of the US to being a few small cities north of NYC. As soon as the Eisenhower highway system was laid out, the last nail in upstate NY's coffin went in.
Better weather, accessibility to the rest of the USA drove business out of NY, as well as its population - including me. Once highways, airports and functional air conditioning was developed, the parka went out of style. That's why only the most richly developed cities - NY, BOS, CHI and PHL (barely) in the northeast still thrive. They thrive due to their cultural assets despite the weather. Since Upstate NY, Western NE, OH, all of IL etc lack cultural assets, they have no draw, only snow. My bet is North Dakota, Alaska, and Montana's tax rates are just as reasonable as GA, or TX and probably better than FL, and definitely better than CA. But guess where people are going? To the best tax havens? No - to the SUNbelt. Hello?
You can cut the taxes all you want but Ross Perot is not going to come running to the snow belt. Nor will NASA launch from Utica. To imagine such is just fantasy. Or perhaps a posturing demagogue's snowjob.
If that were true, then places like Rochester would not be seeing population and employment gains until the late 90s. The highways and airports were put forth decades before that. The big hits did not start until recent years. People go where jobs are and weather is secondary. In the hundreds of articles that came out in the past decade about business leaving, taxes & cost of business are cited as the main contributors, not snow. Again I'll mention a place like Minneapolis as a place that has been doing fine in a very harsh climate. And if you believe that tax breaks won't attract business, take a look at the nanotech facility going up in Albany. They are getting millions and millions in tax breaks and are setting up shop upstate. All of these businesses set up shop down south because of much lower taxes and an easier cost of doing business. They did not have to deal with pesky unions and regulations. Many places down south are right to work states which are very attractive for a business opening up.
There are plenty of areas in upstate that offer cultural assets (Rochester, Buffalo, Albany), just on a smaller scale. Buffalo has one of the better art museums in the northeast. Just because you moved because of snow, does not mean everybody else did.
If that were true, then places like Rochester would not be seeing population and employment gains until the late 90s. The highways and airports were put forth decades before that. The big hits did not start until recent years. People go where jobs are and weather is secondary. In the hundreds of articles that came out in the past decade about business leaving, taxes & cost of business are cited as the main contributors, not snow. Again I'll mention a place like Minneapolis as a place that has been doing fine in a very harsh climate. And if you believe that tax breaks won't attract business, take a look at the nanotech facility going up in Albany. They are getting millions and millions in tax breaks and are setting up shop upstate. All of these businesses set up shop down south because of much lower taxes and an easier cost of doing business. They did not have to deal with pesky unions and regulations. Many places down south are right to work states which are very attractive for a business opening up.
There are plenty of areas in upstate that offer cultural assets (Rochester, Buffalo, Albany), just on a smaller scale. Buffalo has one of the better art museums in the northeast. Just because you moved because of snow, does not mean everybody else did.
+1 again. Snow doesn't drive hordes of people away. Fat wallets in a snowy city just means people are going to ski resorts instead of the beachs.
I went to the the to Oriole game last night with 6 Brighton grads and 2 U or R grads that all said they left Rochester/Monroe county because the weather sucked. Some former Rochester residents sitting behind us hear the joking and joined in.
Weather may have changed some minds, but really has no affect on a cities decline. A fat wallet is what changes your mind. If I had a six figure income I would live in a desert.
Many people make six figure income wherever they live, so they choose to live somewhere pleasant, someplace thats not cloudy much of the time and doesnt have 5-6 months of winter and a large population of grumpy unhappy people spreading their hate and misery.
Many people make six figure income wherever they live, so they choose to live somewhere pleasant, someplace thats not cloudy much of the time and doesnt have 5-6 months of winter and a large population of grumpy unhappy people spreading their hate and misery.
Well, good thing Rochester doesn't have 5-6 months of winter and a large unhappy population spreading hate . Many people choose to live here because of 4 distinct seasons.
The people I know that have moved away moved because of jobs, not the weather.
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Are you serious? You think the industrial base of upstate NY declined because of snow? Upstate has no more snow today than it had 50-100-150 years ago. Sure, retirees often move for weather, but the rest of us move where the economic opportunities are. You think people originally settled Buffalo because they liked the weather? 
