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Based on your description (homework and projects), you got just the underlying foundation to support the college education. But you missed out on the college education itself.
Maybe there's a misunderstanding. I was auditing courses while I was working on my degrees. There were a limited number of courses that I was allowed to enroll in under my degree plans. So any extra courses I wanted to attend, I just audited.
So yes, I think I did get the "college education".
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest
Which school allows you to audit for free?
I did it at both the University of Texas and at Stanford. Nobody ever had an issue with it.
The University of Texas and Stanford are obviously excellent places. But that doesn't answer the question of why you are so lacking in your outlook on people and life. A bit of empathy goes a long way. As you will ultimately find out.
Maybe there's a misunderstanding. I was auditing courses while I was working on my degrees. There were a limited number of courses that I was allowed to enroll in under my degree plans. So any extra courses I wanted to attend, I just audited.
So yes, I think I did get the "college education".
Based on your description, you attended classes and did homework and projects for those classes. If that's all you did, then you got just the underlying foundation to support the college education. But you missed out on the college education itself. Don't be misguided into thinking that the education is in the classroom and coursework.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavelength
I did it at both the University of Texas and at Stanford. Nobody ever had an issue with it.
I have taught at Stanford (and will be again in the Fall). To audit a class there you need to be fully registered and pay tuition. Then you need to fill out a form at the registrar to indicate that you are electing to audit the class. It is not free. Under no circumstances are you allowed to attend a class without registering for it.
Taking extra classes are fun. But it's hard to justify the time to audit classes unless you want to learn a specific skill. Most students can better spend the time learning from academic research, getting published, attending academic debates, and working with professors and PhD students on their research... the real learning at an institute of higher education.
No, not at all. Class is only a part of it. NJBest is right about that. And, sad to say, many people do miss those best parts.
I teach, part time, at my alma mater (Princeton) and have also taught at Rutgers, Georgia Tech, Stanford, and a few others. The bright students want to get the most out of college and spend more time in the research labs trying to soak up as much as they can from the professors and PhD students. These students learn things like critical thinking, analysis, reading comprehension, and have many opportunities to go much deeper into their field than any combination of classes provide.
The rest just take classes (essentially participate in an extension of high school). Many get excellent GPAs... but, sadly, leave the university with only a small portion of the potential education. And thus, we have a large population in this nation who hold degrees, but missed out on the education. Frankly, you could have just read the textbooks at that point and saved a lot of time and money.
The University of Texas and Stanford are obviously excellent places. But that doesn't answer the question of why you are so lacking in your outlook on people and life. A bit of empathy goes a long way. As you will ultimately find out.
I didn't know the question had been posed to me.
But to answer your question, I've seen too many people go through college lately, just to end up in the same "class" of job that they had to begin with, but with are large pile of debt thrown on top. People that, I believe should have chosen something else, or just not gone at all.
Then, you may come back and imply that it has something to do with my limited experience. But then I see all of the student debt crisis articles, the youtube "I majored in debt" videos of people that literally break down in tears telling there stories of how much they regretted going to college. You can even take a look at all the median income and unemployment statistics. I think people prospering off of "worthless" degrees are more so the exception than the rule.
But guess what each and every one of those college regret stories had in common. They were all encouraged to go to college and supported in all their decisions. They may sound great, but what they really needed was a little bit of cold reality.
That's why I originally came to this forum. To spread a little experience and truth. I used to be a bit softer about it. But then I just got sick of all the politically correct, emotion coddling, yes men, b.s.
The people that think they're being nice are actually the primary problem. They are, what I believe to be, the primary, self-perpetuating cause of the student debt crisis. That's why I don't have any empathy for you guys.
But to answer your question, I've seen too many people go through college lately, just to end up in the same "class" of job that they had to begin with, but with are large pile of debt thrown on top. People that, I believe should have chosen something else, or just not gone at all.
Then, you may come back and imply that it has something to do with my limited experience. But then I see all of the student debt crisis articles, the youtube "I majored in debt" videos of people that literally break down in tears telling there stories of how much they regretted going to college. You can even take a look at all the median income and unemployment statistics. I think people prospering off of "worthless" degrees are more so the exception than the rule.
But guess what each and every one of those college regret stories had in common. They were all encouraged to go to college and supported in all their decisions. They may sound great, but what they really needed was a little bit of cold reality.
That's why I originally came to this forum. To spread a little experience and truth. I used to be a bit softer about it. But then I just got sick of all the politically correct, emotion coddling, yes men, b.s.
The people that think they're being nice are actually the primary problem. They are, what I believe to be, the primary, self-perpetuating cause of the student debt crisis. That's why I don't have any empathy for you guys.
I, too, think that people should not take on enormous amounts of debt for college. But they do and it's their fault. No one elses. There's something called personal responsibility. We shouldn't be blaming other people for the financial mistakes of students who made poor decisions.
Based on your description, you attended classes and did homework and projects for those classes. If that's all you did, then you got just the underlying foundation to support the college education. But you missed out on the college education itself. Don't be misguided into thinking that the education is in the classroom and coursework.
It was exactly the same experience as the courses I registered and paid for, except that I didn't have to take the exams. I don't know what magical experience you think you get out of paying for a course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest
I have taught at Stanford (and will be again in the Fall). To audit a class there you need to be fully registered and pay tuition. Then you need to fill out a form at the registrar to indicate that you are electing to audit the class. It is not free. Under no circumstances are you allowed to attend a class without registering for it.
Taking extra classes are fun. But it's hard to justify the time to audit classes unless you want to learn a specific skill. Most students can better spend the time learning from academic research, getting published, attending academic debates, and working with professors and PhD students on their research... the real learning at an institute of higher education.
I've done it before and will probably do it again. I've even had the professors give me CourseWork access. You want me to snap a picture of you to prove it?
It was exactly the same experience as the courses I registered and paid for, except that I didn't have to take the exams. I don't know what magical experience you think you get out of paying for a course.
I was referring to the out-of-the-classroom learning. Not the coursework.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavelength
I've done it before and will probably do it again. I've even had the professors give me CourseWork access. You want me to snap a picture of you to prove it?
No need. Just know that you were in violation of the university contract. You might want to contact the registrar about it. You owe them money based on classes you audited and did not pay for. They are probably not even aware of it.
But to answer your question, I've seen too many people go through college lately, just to end up in the same "class" of job that they had to begin with, but with are large pile of debt thrown on top. People that, I believe should have chosen something else, or just not gone at all.
Then, you may come back and imply that it has something to do with my limited experience. But then I see all of the student debt crisis articles, the youtube "I majored in debt" videos of people that literally break down in tears telling there stories of how much they regretted going to college. You can even take a look at all the median income and unemployment statistics. I think people prospering off of "worthless" degrees are more so the exception than the rule.
But guess what each and every one of those college regret stories had in common. They were all encouraged to go to college and supported in all their decisions. They may sound great, but what they really needed was a little bit of cold reality.
That's why I originally came to this forum. To spread a little experience and truth. I used to be a bit softer about it. But then I just got sick of all the politically correct, emotion coddling, yes men, b.s.
The people that think they're being nice are actually the primary problem. They are, what I believe to be, the primary, self-perpetuating cause of the student debt crisis. That's why I don't have any empathy for you guys.
Ah but you should have a little empathy in your heart. Believe me, you will need it as you progress in your career. If you don't stumble and short circuit it. And, inevitably, all of us do so in one way or the other.
Going to college has changed for the worse in my opinion in the last 10-20 years. Today, everyone seems to want to go that route or else think that they have no choice but to do so. At least, they have been "programmed" for that and its understandable.
I don't know about you but I met many people who were excellent students but some were simply not into the scientific world. They were (and are) very, very bright. They do understand that they more than likely will not get a job in their field (tenure for a history professor is very difficult these days, only a few make it). In your world (or at least your mind set) these are worthless goals. And yet, chances are quite likely that you might even find yourself working for them at some point. Strange things do happen, one just never knows.
I do read those regret stories. And a lot more from unemployed engineers over a certain age who concentrated on one something or other their entire career and then one day thats over. And then?
Last edited by Weichert; 06-05-2014 at 02:54 AM..
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