[Wilton2ParkAve]

Originally Posted by Stepfordct

Drs are highly regarded by most. Make way more income. Are not in a high risk job.
The police thanks to social media are vilified more than ever.
The pay and benefits are not great in most parts of the country, similar to teachers.
So risk/reward doesn't favor them.
In Minneapolis they "reformed" the police. Crime skyrocketed.
Now they are trying to walk it back!

That’s a really interesting comment - ‘not a high risk job’? Where have I been for the last seven months where more physicians died from Covid than police in the line of duty over multiple years? No one is trying our legislation back in CT and higher crime has a lot more to do with unemployment and pandemic related stress than police reform.

Kid: Why don’t you just shake hands with the facts rather than go ad hominem?

[Nik4me]

Originally Posted by Wilton2ParkAve

Surgeons and ER doctors also face split second life and death decisions (more over the course of a working career). They are also subject to civil (and criminal) lawsuits. What am I missing?

The COVID dangers to doctors are due to PPE issues and perhaps some personal mistakes in not properly wearing PPE and protecting themselves..


The doctors are not risking their lives and the lives of their colleagues around the operating table like the police officers do every day even in some mundane daylight routine traffic stop.

It is very rare for the doctors to encounter that "split second" decision: they could prepare themselves for a surgery, including reviewing before hand potentially dangerous for the patient consequences if something is going wrong and what measures could be taken.

The doctors are in a controlled by them environment: hospital, technology, additional staff, medicine : there is an option to extend that "split second" and search for an additional expertise.

And they are only liable if they are proven negligent.
That is why they must have a malpractice insurance.
I agree that the suing the doctors rewards must be limited- the medicine is not always the science.

I foresee some form of "malpractice" insurance is coming to a police force as well if these new laws have any staying power.

We should not absolve the public from their own responsibilities:

- if one has a gun, knife and or pointing at police - prepare to die just in case or hit the ground submissively very quick

- if one is on drugs/alcohol doing something stupid and acting irrationally- the same ( I never could understand "being on drugs" criminal defense argument as a mitigating circumstance- it should be changed to an aggravating)

- a young unruly man in an ungodly hour is on the streets or with the gang instead of their own bed- what do you expect?

-domestic dispute warranting the call from a neighbor? - you should be aware of the consequences and control yourself.

- mental illness: seek help, stay on therapeutics, stay home

Better cameras on police helmets? to make sure the police just don't shoot negligently hitting bystanders/passersby should help

[Mr_250]

Originally Posted by Wilton2ParkAve

That’s a really interesting comment - ‘not a high risk job’? Where have I been for the last seven months where more physicians died from Covid than police in the line of duty over multiple years? No one is trying our legislation back in CT and higher crime has a lot more to do with unemployment and pandemic related stress than police reform.

Kid: Why don’t you just shake hands with the facts rather than go ad hominem?

No doubt being a doctor or a nurse is high risk, especially now. Doctors have malpractice insurance either paid by them (solo practice) or by their employer hospital. If we want to let the towns pay for “accountability” insurance, fine with me. Or if people complain the taxes will go up, pay the cops more money so they can cover the premium. It’s no wonder why our health care cost so much, it’s all the malpractice insurance they need to carry for liability. We can bring that same mentality to policing, just be prepared to pay for it.

The crime going up is somewhat of a cover. A family member works in a federal level of criminal justice and called for this to happen back in March. They are releasing people back in the population that did “low level” crimes (auto theft) and now auto theft is at a record rate. A lot of people were pushed from jail, or court dates moved because of this and now the chickens have come home to roust. (This was confirmed by the Mayor of Hartford on the Zoom call last week).

Also, I think the police unions and union president all protested this bill.

[SteveM85]

Originally Posted by Mr_250

No doubt being a doctor or a nurse is high risk, especially now. Doctors have malpractice insurance either paid by them (solo practice) or by their employer hospital. If we want to let the towns pay for “accountability” insurance, fine with me. Or if people complain the taxes will go up, pay the cops more money so they can cover the premium. It’s no wonder why our health care cost so much, it’s all the malpractice insurance they need to carry for liability. We can bring that same mentality to policing, just be prepared to pay for it.

The crime going up is somewhat of a cover. A family member works in a federal level of criminal justice and called for this to happen back in March. They are releasing people back in the population that did “low level” crimes (auto theft) and now auto theft is at a record rate. A lot of people were pushed from jail, or court dates moved because of this and now the chickens have come home to roust. (This was confirmed by the Mayor of Hartford on the Zoom call last week).

Also, I think the police unions and union president all protested this bill.

Everyone knows about the catch and release. The Car break-in PSA thread started long before Covid. Has it been accelerated by Covid? probably
This ones about violent crime and homcide counts. Stylo and Wilton are on point, its unemployment and Covid stress. Nationwide.

[tbanks3]

Somewhere along the way it seems like what is left out of the conversation is that deaths by police are significantly higher in US compared to other similar countries. There is obviously a problem in the way law enforcement functions and it is not a reflection of US citizens being more criminal in nature. Addressing the issue is obviously not as simple as enforcing accountability measures but to suggest these initiatives are more problematic or causal to crime is beside the point.

We need both increased accountability, better initiatives toward equality such as improved safety net, and yes, some rethinking of expectations of what police should have to do. Change is going to be disruptive.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by Wilton2ParkAve

Kid: Why don’t you just shake hands with the facts rather than go ad hominem?

I must have missed the factual data you presented. Maybe you can point me in that direction.

You’re the one who brought up your FIL being a police accountability supporting police chief to help keep your opinion relevant. Thankfully he’s in the minority (as are your opinions here). Someone at that level who supports such a laughably disconnected bill targeting the men and women they represented is, IMO, deserving of zero respect; so yeah, very glad he’s former - as are his ex-coworkers, I’m certain.

Originally Posted by tbanks3

Somewhere along the way it seems like what is left out of the conversation is that deaths by police are significantly higher in US compared to other similar countries. There is obviously a problem in the way law enforcement functions and it is not a reflection of US citizens being more criminal in nature. Addressing the issue is obviously not as simple as enforcing accountability measures but to suggest these initiatives are more problematic or causal to crime is beside the point.

We need both increased accountability, better initiatives toward equality such as improved safety net, and yes, some rethinking of expectations of what police should have to do. Change is going to be disruptive.

That actually couldn’t be further from the truth. The US is the most violent of any western nation you’re comparing it to. That’s precisely the reason US law enforcement trains and responds the way they do.

[Wilton2ParkAve]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

I must have missed the factual data you presented. Maybe you can point me in that direction.

You’re the one who brought up your FIL being a police accountability supporting police chief to help keep your opinion relevant. Thankfully he’s in the minority (as are your opinions here). Someone at that level who supports such a laughably disconnected bill targeting the men and women they represented is, IMO, deserving of zero respect; so yeah, very glad he’s former - as are his ex-coworkers, I’m certain.



That actually couldn’t be further from the truth. The US is the most violent of any western nation you’re comparing it to. That’s precisely the reason US law enforcement trains and responds the way they do.

Give it a rest kid - the support for reform as demonstrated by Pew (and every other source) is eye opening. You screaming louder and accusing anyone of supporting accountability as not being worthy of respect is reprehensible. But admittedly, I’m not surprised. (I’m also 100% sure as a military vet and LEO, he’s earned respect).

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by Wilton2ParkAve

Give it a rest kid - the support for reform as demonstrated by Pew (and every other source) is eye opening. You screaming louder and accusing anyone of supporting accountability as not being worthy of respect is reprehensible. But admittedly, I’m not surprised. (I’m also 100% sure as a military vet and LEO, he’s earned respect).

I specifically stated a former police chief, not “anyone”, since they should know the nature of the job. To support this after being in such a high powered position proves their [I’’ll repeat] disconnect. Again, you brought that to light at what’s seemingly the attempt to make your stance more relevant. It surely doesn’t.

I’m still waiting for those facts.

[Wilton2ParkAve]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

I specifically stated a former police chief, not “anyone”, since they should know the nature of the job. To support this after being in such a high powered position proves their [I’’ll repeat] disconnect. Again, you brought that to light at what’s seemingly the attempt to make your stance more relevant. It surely doesn’t.

I’m still waiting for those facts.

You also specifically stated and I quote “my opinions were also in the minority”. To which l linked the Pew survey. Turns out my opinion is in the supermajority. As for LEO supporting reform, I’ll just leave this here (and summarize below). Game. Set. Match.

https://morningconsult.com/2020/07/2...phics-polling/

- Most police officers (59 percent) support banning no-knock warrants
- 60% of police officers support lawsuits for actions performed on the job

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by Wilton2ParkAve

You also specifically stated and I quote “my opinions were also in the minority”. To which l linked the Pew survey. Turns out my opinion is in the supermajority. As for LEO supporting reform, I’ll just leave this here (and summarize below). Game. Set. Match.

https://morningconsult.com/2020/07/2...phics-polling/

- Most police officers (59 percent) support banning no-knock warrants
- 60% of police officers support lawsuits for actions performed on the job

We’re specifically discussing the police accountability bill in Connecticut, as it applies to crime in CT cities. Why you would quote a national opinion, that has zero to do with this specific bill, is beyond me.

Your police chief FIL should also tell you no-knock warrants are extremely rare in the state of CT, and account for a tiny fraction of the split second decision making controversial actions that have been brought to light nationwide. Limiting them is an example of criminal justice reform - not police accountability. They are granted and signed by a judge and overseen by the state attorney‘s office. The decision is not on law enforcement, and 99.9% of officers have never executed a no-knock warrant. Full stop.

In reference to Morning Consult, you do realize they poll from a selected opt-in panel, meaning only those who have signed up to take the survey can participate, right?

Next.