Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
But you don't know that There is no data for what they did, that's one of the points I demand to know the answer for. I bet a lot of the poor live near Canada, far from the offices where one has to sit for up to 8 hours, which I have done, to talk to someone. I hate that I had to do it, I hate that I had to go there several times, but I was desperate and I was struggling. Thankfully I'm in D.C., I do work full-time and I'm trying to go to school. I just want answers to where that 10,000 went instead of people making assumptions that they were lazy good-for-nothings.
I live in Maine and I'll tell were I think many of those people went, many of them were young people working under the table or still living at home, only on SNAP because it was easy and free with no work requirement, the nominal amount they received was used to buy energy drinks and junk food.
The minute they were told they would have to go to school or sweep a sidewalk they walked away.
This is good news because now you won't have 8 hour waits at the HHS office, behind a bunch of 18 year olds looking for some free twinkies and monster energy. Oh and by the way i spend 8 hour a day at work 5 days a week (sometimes a lot more than that). So sorry if I can't find any tears to shed for your one 8 hour day at the HHS office for your free food for life.
As far as you "demanding to know" feel free to to come up here on your own time and doing a survey, No one is stopping anyone from applying for SNAP, there not applying because it is no longer free and easy.
One more thing there are plenty of HHS offices along the Maine/Canada border. Maine DHHS - Office Finder
Actually, business (big and small) does create jobs, in that when business volume increases, so does the business's demand for labor. Jobs are simply the means to an end, that end being profit.
The result of increased consumer demand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX
Profit is not the result of layoffs or outsourcing, profit is the result of the company doing business.
Also the result of consumer spending.
Seems to be a pattern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX
Layoffs, outsourcing, and offshoring wouldn't be necessary if government would stop inflating the cost of doing business, via taxation and regulation.
Big business would still outsource, layoff, and offshore.
I'll never understand this need to kiss the rear of big business by people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
The other side of the equation is that poor people get hired to do the actual work. Rich people can't get that way without the 99% doing their hard work for them. And as mentioned above, the 99% have to have a decent income to buy the companies' products or they go kaput.
As for the truly poor who need assistance ...... well there's only a part of each person's life when they are truly productive, not when they are young, old, or sick. Some people are more productive than others. That's the way it's been since the beginnings of the human race, a few mature individuals provided most of the food etc for the whole tribe, and were usually "paid" simply by gratitude and a higher status.
That was a much more dangerous world. These days, a lot of that is done by industrial equipment.
There comes a point where welfare is necessary, but there also comes a point where it goes to far. The person I referenced in an earlier post receiving $1400/month rental assistance, adding up all his benefits, one is looking at $30,000+ for someone who doesn't work (isn't of retirement age) coming from tax payers.
A welfare system is inherently corrupt, just like so many other of our institutions are, such as our system of courts and lawyers, our criminal justice system, our system of politics and elections, etc. By corrupt I mean sleazy and incompetent. Thomas Paine may have said it best: "When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary." The founders of our institutions should have taken him more seriously. All of our institutions should be designed to take corruption into account, and to automatically defend against it. But it won't happen, because those whose jobs are to manage and improve our institutions are themselves corrupt.
The basic problem with welfare is that there is no good way to find out who really needs it and who is just scamming it. A well designed welfare system could solve that problem, but we're stuck behind a wall of corruption, with any such well designed system being nothing but a dream.
Making people work is an oversimplified solution. A lot of people have the skills to do useful work, but not the skills to find jobs. That same lack of skills can prevent them from finding volunteer opportunities. Some people work more than one minimum wage job and still need food stamps. How can they work for their food stamps if they already have 2 or 3 jobs? A lot of their jobs are part time on call, which means the person could get fired for not being available to work, but is nevertheless idle the majority of the time. So the first thing they would need would be flexible volunteer hours, and the ability to leave the volunteer work to go back to their job on a moment's notice. But a bigger problem with the oversimplified solution is that the people have to prove they're working or volunteering. That implies paperwork and bureaucracy. Again, corruption, with lots of losers unable to get past that corruption. Keep in mind that by corruption I mean sleaze and incompetence. A lot of government workers are so incompetent that you don't dare ask them to make any paperwork changes that aren't an emergency, because for every legitimate change they make, they add 10 errors, making things worse.
A system designed for the way people really are, instead of the way everyone hopes they are, would not require any paperwork at all from beneficiaries. 100% of all welfare money, including food stamp money, section 8, ssi, etc., could be used for building, maintaining, and managing, many times more homeless shelters than we already have, and for auditing them to reduce their corruption, and for auditing the auditing. If people are poor enough to need welfare, they should be considered poor enough to live in homeless shelters. And that would automatically filter out those who don't need it. Not by corrupt paperwork, but by the simple fact that most people are not motivated to live in a homeless shelter. Such shelters could not only provide spartan accomodations to everyone who wants them, with no paperwork from anyone, but also could provide everything else poor people need, such as job training, etc. And especially lack of drugs and other interferences that prevent a lot of poor people from becoming successful.
Those who say this should be done by charities are living in a dream world. Charities evaluate who deserves their charity. They discriminate more than anyone. What would the rejects do? The system I'm in favor of would automatically reject those who don't need it, by motivation alone, with no opportunity to discriminate against them.
But it won't happen. Our present corrupt institutions are defended by a big wall of corruption, which would take almost forever to break through, if people were even motivated to break through it.
When reading the above, keep in mind that I'm not using the most common definition of corruption. Mine is much broader. Not just bribery and extortion, but all kinds of sleaze and incompetence. Therefore, by my definition, anyone who tends to do paperwork with lots of errors would be considered corrupt, as would anyone who fails to do what's needed because they don't have the competence or motivation to do good work.
Honestly, I had no idea that single, able-bodied people could get SNAP. I thought you'd have to be a single-parent head of household to get that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 02blackgt
Americans dont hate the poor, Americans hate people that surf through life scamming the system. OMG were asking able bodied people to volunteer or get job training for free money, how is that fair? Well its fair b/c not only are we putting money in their hands short term, were also putting life/work skill in their life long term. Sounds like a win win situation to me!
To the point, Americans hate anyone who's perceived as having an easier time at life who haven't gained that ease by amassing immense wealth, as only the wealthy have our implicit permission to live a life of ease, because they earned it and deserved it.
Americans also hate working hard to achieve something, only to see their fellow neighbor achieve the same thing while putting in only a third of the work needed.
Meanwhile, the poor are constantly seen as lazy, shiftless reprobates who actively shirk work in favor of a "life of ease" lived on the dole. It's the narrative handed down by people who have no interest in creating any sort of social contract that helps people maintain a reasonable standard of living outside of the employer/employee dynamic and at wages the employer, not anyone else, dictates (they would ex-nay the minimum wage if such a thing was possible).
Some vocational training was also an option and folks did not select that? I mean why not? Different mentality than you or I have that is for certain.
Some take the vocational training and still don't work. Bottomline is they get used to the free money and many grew up seeing that as a great option. I am speaking of the deadbeats or those that work under the table not those that just need training/experience/general guidance.
[quote=HappyTexan;39171830]50 years of straight handouts haven't worked.
So let's train them, let's give them jobs while they are on welfare.
How is that war on the poor when job training is mandated so they can better themselves and they run from it ?
Many of these people if volunteering would get job experience at a minimum which would help them secure jobs. I think some would benefit from just that. On job training, it should be vo-tech and for positions that are needed in the labor market and the vo-tech is usually inline with that need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valsteele
There aren't enough jobs for the population of America, so welfare is essential to make sure everyone can eat. I don't think it's fair for a country with so much wealth to just allow people to basically starve.
Every $ paid out by welfare is a $ earned by someone else who does work including the working poor. 24/hours/month is nothing. Tell that to someone working double shift to put food on their family's table because they are doing the right thing.
In KS, because of low wages, it can be more lucrative to draw welfare especially with welfare's fringe benefits. Our younger neighbor with a child was working 3 different jobs, one full-time and two part-time and his wife was working part-time and they have one child. He finally, after about 10 years, has gotten a job with the railroad.
I knew a LOT of people, females, that had entered the military to provide for their families back home and males that came in because of debt and no job.
Many people are really sacrificing these days and we can't carry dead weight on our backs anymore and their numbers are growing so something needs to be done. I think until you actually hear from someone in the system that you can't listen to the chatter of those, especially those whining about "corporate welfare" because they really don't know how the poor feel. The drug/alcohol people are the worst that I have seen and they will steal when the money runs out. There are food banks everywhere and places for free clothing and other services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuptag
Just curious, assuming they don't have a valid driver's license/working car how do they get to that volunteer opportunity? What happens if they get injured while volunteering? Does Workmen's Comp kick in somehow?
If they get injured, they still have welfare to fall back on since they are still getting that check. And, they would have their free medical insurance available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7
I could see a lot of people turning to other means (drugs, robbery, etc) in order to get their food instead of doing some "stupid ass program".
It sounds good on paper, until you learn that most people on the program are complete and utter trash.
Most (not all) are free loaders, they aren't looking for an opportunity to do things right, they are looking for a quick easy way to get free stuff.
What I actually heard in KS when they were trying to put restrictions in place is that the citizens were afraid if they didn't give them money, cold hard cash, they would be stealing from the people. So, it amounted to a sort of blackmail. Sadly, they were already stealing since when you use crack (choice drug in the area and law enforcement didn't touch it), the check goes really quick and by the last 2 weeks of the month, you needed to be careful because they would steal anything that wasn't nailed down. It was nightmare when the price of scrap metal went up! These were the dead weight.
I think the program in Maine sounds great. My husband's sister took advantage of nurse's training (LPN) years ago in the state of WA. Before that, they had really struggled. She got the degree and has been working as a nurse for probably 25 years now and got training on her own for an RN pursuing that program while working full-time.
One thing to keep in mind and that I have seen is that some people REALLY benefit from poor people. Slum lords for sure, as well as, those businesses that charge high prices because they know they have that captive group of shoppers. Are more and more of those "payday loan" places opening in your city? They are in ours. There are many making money off the poor and they won't want to give those dollars up!
Honestly, I had no idea that single, able-bodied people could get SNAP. I thought you'd have to be a single-parent head of household to get that.
In Maine it's really easy to get benefits, even easier to lie on the applications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valsteele
There aren't enough jobs for the population of America, so welfare is essential to make sure everyone can eat. I don't think it's fair for a country with so much wealth to just allow people to basically starve.
We could change our economy so that there was a job for everyone. We just don't have the political courage nor the population that accepts personal responsibility to allow for it to happen currently.
In Maine it's really easy to get benefits, even easier to lie on the applications.
We could change our economy so that there was a job for everyone. We just don't have the political courage nor the population that accepts personal responsibility to allow for it to happen currently.
From 2009-2014 the US (USCIS) issued 7.4 million work permits.
Refugees, tourists, students, illegal aliens all seemed to find jobs while Americans couldn't ?
How can you say these people represent the average welfare applicant/recipient in NYC? You couldn't possibly know that. There are thousands of people receiving all sorts of welfare/assistance in NYC. Seems to me you chose this video to validate a view you've already held.
You seem overly defensive over a video made by the daughter of one of the biggest liberals in politics, Nancy Pelosi. Ironic huh? Bwahahahahaha!
After reading this thread, while most are in favor of such an idea for those on gov't assistance, there are those who are making the claims that this is "hating the poor", making them "jump through hoops", as if it is an act of torture to expect anyone to actually give SIX HOURS per week of their time to either bettering themselves with job training or volunteering in their community. That's right, as if SIX HOURS per week is torturing these people. Meanwhile, the rest of America is waking up at 5 am to work 8-12 hours every single day to make sure they can eat and those on food stamps can eat.
What is America coming to?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
